[John Burnes]

All-

I uncovered that our course took a different route on its original design, and was that way for 25 years.  Now 80 years later, I am trying to convince the board to return to the original route. It is a better course with great opening an closing holes under the original format and will improve pace of play.

Problem is, infrastructure wise (practice area, golf shop, cart barn etc) would be 70 yards away.  The biggest problem, however, is 9 would be out at the farthest point (today it returns back to the start and 10 takes you out and 18 returns to the start) (somewhat).

I am making my case next month-anyone has experience with this?  Or just thoughts in general?

[Ronald Montesano]

Honestly, I would buy every board member dinner between now and then and grease the wheels. Most days, it's who's on your side, not how good is your case...

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ask architects, writers and editors to support your theories
Who is your original architect

A couple years ago a friend from the treehouse asked my opinion about his club that was about to change the order of the nines.
I sent a letter to support the original routing and listed the reasons
He said it worked (go figure) and they use the original routing as of today

And like Ronald says, buy drinks for the board

Cheers

[Bill_McBride]

Don't be in a hurry, find some allies and build support.  Anything radical is going to scare off the timid members, who need strong leadership to make a decision.  Hopefully you can find an ally who is part of the really "in crowd.".  Every club has one.  Good luck. 

Historical aerials would be important. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

Do you really mean "re-routed" or just reconfiguring the order of play ?

Many, many clubs alter the order of play while leaving the individual holes intact (routing)

Recently, Shackamaxon in NJ, altered the order of play, probably for the dozenth time.

Somerset Hills, NGLA, Preakness Hills and many other courses have reversed nines (order of play), so there are plenty of precedents for you to reference.

[John Burnes]

Hi Patrick-

I want to start on current # 8 and finish on current # 7 as this was the original routing.  No other order change is needed, so it would go like this:

8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

Did I use the proper term?

[Jason Connor]

This is a private club?

My strategy might be to show the board the original routing and suggest that X days a month the course be played that way, just to add variety.

Let the members experience the course the way it was designed and see for themselves whether they like it enough that way to make a drastic change.

I think going all in on the change right off the bat is probably too much to ask -- and it also implies that they're putting your will (do you have allies) over that of many others that may like snacks, bathrooms, etc, conveniently located where they are.

Letting others learn for themselves why your way is better is oftentimes a good strategy.

[Jason Topp]

Know your vote count and if you do not have the votes suggest an event using the original routing.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Along with the idea of playing the new order of holes a few days of week you could prepare a score card to go along with that.  This would exercise would also show you how the new order of holes will flow and let you experiment with handicap assignments.

[jeffwarne]

Some good suggestions above.

I'd spend a bit of time convincing the professional staff as they will face greater challenges with a course that goes straight out for 9.
Is there a 9 hole loop that returns to/near the clubhouse starting on your proposed #1?
To say nothing of 1/2 way house infrastructure/staffing (as previously mentioned)
The fact that it improves pace of play is a great talking point for your plan

[Mark Provenzano]

John,

Could you please explain why/how you feel pace of play will improve? Aside from players not taking 10-15 minutes at the turn with returning nines.

[RJ_Daley]

As asked above, how about ID the course and original archie?  Also, how about an aerial Google or Bing link?

It seems like some of the comments answering you, John, indicate they know you and your club. 

I also like the comment that maybe the routing was changed by professional-grounds maintenance staff for efficiency reasons of mowing and other work on a daily basis, particularly if there are cumbersome creek or ravine crossings, etc.  But, without more info, one is at a loss to comment, other than some pretty smart club guys seem to have given some good politic advice. 

[Matthew Rose]

The muni I grew up on changed routing about a year after I started playing. The original routing returned at 9, 11, 16, and 18. The new one returned at 5, 9, 11, and 18. I guess logistically the new way was better like that because people often stopped for drinks between 5 and 6 and there was quite a walk between the old 16th/17th which eventually became the walk from 9 to 10.

Later when I worked there, I used to play the old routing for fun. I didn't do it enough to really say whether it was superior or not overall, but I did think (and still do) that #10 and #11 were among the two best holes on the course and made a cool finishing pair. (They were 17-18 before).

I used to ask older employees in the clubhouse which one they preferred, but few if any even remembered how it went and the ones that did never seemed to care.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Matthew,
Is the course good?
Is doesn't sound inspired either way.

Banff has a new routing based on it's new clubhouse location.
During the GCA trip we played the current orientation first and were allowed to play the original also.

The original was a full point better, or in buddy speak, it was 1,000 times better than the current.
The placement of every hole in the round was better, especially 1, 18 & the Cauldron.

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