[Tom MacWood]

I believe the SH course in Vancouver was built in 1911 or 1912. I've seen attributions for Macan, but I thought he came over later than 1912. I recently came across something where Jim Barnes claimed he designed the course, but that must have been very early in his career. 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

I know Macan planned extensive remodelling of Shaughnesy Heights on at least one occasion (new holes, etc). But, as you infer, I'm certain the course was already there prior to Macan's arrival in British Columbia.

Not sure who originally laid it out, good question.

[Dale Jackson]

Macan was certainly not the original designer, he arrived in Canada in 1912.  Shaughnessy produced a 100 year history last year and I have a copy.  Unfortunately, I am far away from the book at the moment.   Will try to get to it or perhaps someone else has it.

[Tom MacWood]

I believe at some point the course was expanded from nine to eighteen, so he may have been involved with that.

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
The course opened in 1912, but I'm pretty sure the project began around April 1911 when they purchased the land.

[Dale Jackson]

Tom, Mike Riste's book does not list Shaughnessy Heights as a course that Macan had any involvement with.  Mike's research is exhaustive and I think it can be relied upon.  Macan, of course, did design the new Shaughnessy course when they moved in the late 1950s.

Interestingly, Wikipedia notes SH was formed in 1911, opened 9 holes that year and the second 9 the year after.  And then it credits Macan with the design, citing Cornish, Whitten as the source, a copy of which I do not have. 

Regardless, it is not true Macan was the original designer, he did not arrive in Canada until July 19, 1912 (source: Riste's book).

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
That makes sense to me. I'd be curious who the club history says designed it. I found a 1922 article in the magazine The Golfer where Jim Barnes said he designed the course.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Interestingly, Wikipedia notes SH was formed in 1911, opened 9 holes that year and the second 9 the year after.  And then it credits Macan with the design, citing Cornish, Whitten as the source, a copy of which I do not have. 
...

That's what my Cornish, Whitten says.

[Dale Jackson]

...
Interestingly, Wikipedia notes SH was formed in 1911, opened 9 holes that year and the second 9 the year after.  And then it credits Macan with the design, citing Cornish, Whitten as the source, a copy of which I do not have. 
...

That's what my Cornish, Whitten says.

Well, they were not infallible, I guess!

[Tom MacWood]

...
Interestingly, Wikipedia notes SH was formed in 1911, opened 9 holes that year and the second 9 the year after.  And then it credits Macan with the design, citing Cornish, Whitten as the source, a copy of which I do not have. 
...

That's what my Cornish, Whitten says.

Well, they were not infallible, I guess!

For all of they have contributed thats for damn sure, and its quite possible he redesigned the course at some point.

[TEPaul]

Cornish and Whitten did an absolutely remarkable job of putting together the tome on golf course architecture they did, essentially listing most all the significant architects and significant courses around the world with architect attribution.


HOWEVER, of course they weren't infallible in their architectural attribution of all courses around the world. I had about a two hour conversation with Geoffrey Cornish about ten years ago on how they did it. He told me that mostly they contacted the clubs for their architectural attribution and mostly if the club made mistakes on attribution their book would reflect it.

I think their chapters before the lisiting of architects and courses was brilliant in its general information on the history and evolution of architecture. It wasn't as in depth as some might like but it was excellent for what it included and said.

MacWood used to crticize me for only relying on Cornish and Whitten's book for my architectural information---which was of course bullshit. Of course that was never true. He seemed to feel they could've gone into more depth. Perhaps, but what they produced in their ANALYSIS of the history and evolution of golf and golf architecture would blow away a guy like MacWood any day no matter what subject he chose. MacWood might find more arcane stuff then they ever did but his over-all analyses of the history of golf architecture will never match Cornish and Whitten's book "The Architects of Golf."


Interestingly, Mr Cornish also told me that William Gordon was the primary one who encouraged him to write that book!

[Dale Jackson]

I went to the source and asked Mike Riste about the original design of SH and possible Macan involvement.  Here is his reply.

It is really debatable who designed the original layout. I think the club history credits engineers from the CPR.

Mac started his relationship with Shaughnessy Heights in 1920. He did some bunker for Vancouver and Shaughnessy for the 1920 PNGA championships.

He did the famous report for the Board in 1924  when he wanted Shaughnessy to move to University. When that idea was rejected he designed the orphan holes 5 and 6. These were located along Oak from 37 - 40th.

He also did some bunkering at various times.

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
Thats very interesting. I looked at the 1917 golf guide and the course was 18 holes at that point. Does Mike Riste know who designed the course?

[Dale Jackson]

Tom, see above, he believes it was done by employees of the CPR, that is the design and construction.  That was my recollection too, but without reference to Shaughnessy's book, I did not want to put that forward.

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
I'm sorry, I should have read your post more closely.

CPR = Canadian Pacific Railroad?

[Dale Jackson]

Dale
I'm sorry, I should have read your post more closely.

CPR = Canadian Pacific Railroad?

Correct.  Executives from the CPR were the founders, don't recall if the CPR itself was involved

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