Captain W Chambers

[Dale Jackson]

Looking for some help from the collective on this DG.  As part of the research for the 100 year history of Royal Colwood, I have become aware of a Captain W Chambers who was involved in the very early design of the course.  I am trying to determine who this gentleman might have been but with very little to go on.  Here is what I know.

He came to the Victoria, British Columbia area around 1912.

He was a "scratch man in St Andrews"

He was at that time a "past British Army Champion"

He was described in a Seattle Times article as "possessing world wide fame in the golfing world"

And that is all I have.  To address some obvious responses, I have contacted the British Army Golf Association and I have sent an enquiry to the R&A.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

[Dale Jackson]

Bump, somebody must know something!

[Pete_Pittock]

could be William Chambers, who with his brother Robert, published Chambers's Journal. Sons of C E S Chambers

[Dale Jackson]

Pete, the William Chambers connected with Chambers's Journal died in 1884.  My Captain Chambers was in Victoria 1912 - 1913.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Dale,

His name doesn't ring any bells with me but there might be something on him in the numerous book published in the early 1900s. I'll have a look through some of those early books by Hilton, Hutchinson, Kirkaldy, etc. I'm sure he must have played in the Amateur Championship.

[Dale Jackson]

bump

someone, anyone?

I have drawn a blank with the sources I am aware of.

[Tom MacWood]

There were some very famous golfing Chambers at St. Andrews. Robert Chambers was a publishing magnate and very prominent within the R&A. He was Guy Campbell's great grandfather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Chambers_(publisher_born_1802)

[Dale Jackson]

Thanks Tom,

I have made enquiry with the R&A and there were two  members with the Chambers surname in the appropriate time period - late 1800s, very early 1900s - but they are not my man.

I am beginning to think the reference to him as "possessing world wide fame in the golfing world" is hyperbole!

[Pete_Pittock]

Dale,
What was he doing in Seattle that warranted the article? Maybe a secondary source can be found.

[Dale Jackson]

Pete he was playing on the Victoria side in the Seattle GC vs Victoria GC interclub.  He made quite a record for himself in the year or two I believe he was in Victoria.

[RJ_Daley]

Maybe he was one of the earliest know 'Wolf game' victims, of Sir Boab.   

[Tom MacWood]

Thanks Tom,

I have made enquiry with the R&A and there were two  members with the Chambers surname in the appropriate time period - late 1800s, very early 1900s - but they are not my man.

I am beginning to think the reference to him as "possessing world wide fame in the golfing world" is hyperbole!

Dale
How many references have you seen to this gent? I'm thinking the first initial, or the name might be wrong.

[Dale Jackson]

Tom, references in several newspaper articles, including one written by AV Macan that appeared in the Seattle Times in November, 1913.  I believe the name is correct

He appears in Victoria and the Victoria Golf Club in 1912 from what I have found.  He played in various local and regional events in 1912 and 1913 with some success, and I think the last reference I have is the November 1913 Macan article.

My assumption, and it is only an assumption, is that he left Victoria and Canada to return to the UK sometime in 1914 when things began to deteriorate in Europe prior to the outbreak of WWI.  Despite being credited by Macan as a co-designer of Colwood in 1913, and an entry in the club's financial records detailing that both Macan and Chambers received $250 to design the course, he is never mentioned again as a designer of Colwood and certainly from the end of WWI and on Macan is always listed as the sole designer of the Colwood course.

To this point any other information remains a frustrating mystery.

[Pete_Pittock]

Dale,
Under the supposition he returned to England for what became World War I, and there is no mention later in golf he might not have survived. A search of Captains and above at http://www.forces-war-records.com/records.asp?SE=go&KW=_+British_army_ww1&gclid=CMKB0t3XkLACFQhahwodtWh2rw
might be in order.

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
I found Captain W. Chambers in Chicago and Medford, Oregon papers, and he is also in Chick Evans' book. In 1913 Evans and Warren Wood played a match against Chambers and Macan at Victoria GC. Unfortunately there was no background info on the man.

[Dale Jackson]

Tom and anyone else following this saga, the mystery has been solved.  And all thanks to this DG, which turned up in a search made by the great grand daughter of Captain Chambers as she tried to learn more about her relative.  POsted below are parts of Chambers history, as you will see he came from Scottish golfing royalty!

Chambers's name was originally Dunn and he changed it to his wife's name when they married.  His wife was the granddaughter of the famous Scotsman Robert Chambers Senior (co-founder of the W&R Chambers publishing company) and the daughter of Robert Chambers Jun.

Chambers was born William Gourlay Dunn on 18.02.1874 to Isabella (daughter of the famous ballmaker John Gourlay) and Tom Dunn (son of Willie Dunn Senior and brother of Willie Dunn Jun) at Windmill Cottage Wimbledon Common, adjacent the London Scottish Golf Club. His father Tom Dunn was a prolific golf - course designer,clubmaker, player and teacher. His siblings John Duncan Dunn, Seymour Gourlay Dunn, May Dunn-Webb-Hupfel and Norah Dunn have well-documented golfing careers throughout the early years of USA golf as - players, teachers, manufacturers and course designers.  His uncle, Willie Dunn Jun, won the first Open Championship of the United States held at St. Andrews Golf Club in December 1894 defeating Willie Campbell.

An important piece of Royal Colwood's history has been reclaimed and all thanks to GCA!

[Tom MacWood]

That is one bizarre story.

I have the British census records from 1881, 1891 and 1901 for Tom Dunn. In 1881 he was living with his wife Isabella, daughter Isabella and his brother William Dunn, otherwise known as Willie Dunn, who was 17 at the time. I'm not sure if Willie was a resident or visiting. In 1891 Tom and Isabella, son John (JD), Son Charles, daughter May, son Seymour, and daughter Norah. In 1901 it was Tom and Isabella, and daughter Norah. Seymour's middle name was Gourlay too, and I have found a couple of Golf Illustrated articles where he was referred to as Gourlay Dunn.

It seems odd that he wasn't living in the home at seven years old. And it is very unusual for a man to change his last name, especially when associated with such a famous family. I'm wondering if W. Chambers was legitimate, which might explain why he wasn't living with his father. Or came from a different father.

The oldest sibling listed on the census records was Isabella, but she was only 10 months. I take it she died prematurely.  

[Dale Jackson]

Tom, re the change in last name.   This is the second time in my research I have run across a man changing his last name when marrying.  In both cases it appears they be marrying into families with considerable means.  Not sure if that is a coincidence or not.

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
That may be the case, but that still doesn't explain why he apparently was not living with his father at the age of 7.

Here is link to a good profile on the Dunn family:

http://www.northberwick.org.uk/dunn.html

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
I just looked again at the census reports and in 1891 son Charles was 17 years old, which put his date of birth at 1874. So I guess Charles must be Captain W. Chambers.