[Randy St John]

The PGA/CMAA/GCSAA/NCA issues are about people, not the industry.  I think there is a place for everyone including management companies.  They wouldn't exist if there wasn't a need.  That said, professional managers at the top, regardless from which area they came, make a huge difference.  A consistent direction to all staff on a daily basis that is "member focused" makes all the difference.  Clubs that cannot afford this often go down the road with committees running daily operations.  While well intended, the death spiral is hard to hold off when the economy goes south.

We are not saving lives here.  Put out a good product, take care of the members, they keep coming back and recommending the place to their friends and so on and so on.  Not impossible.  The hard part is reigning in costs and saying no to people, albeit quietly, when you really need to....staff and members.

[Mike_Young]

2.  As of today I have never seen an association, whether it be the CMAA, the PGA or the GCSAA run a club. 

Just for reference, the PGA does own and operate the PGA Golf Club in Port St. Lucie, Florida and Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville.

Have you ever received a golf lesson from the PGA or had them ring a shirt for you?   come on Ken..you know what I'm talking about...

[Bill_McBride]

2.  As of today I have never seen an association, whether it be the CMAA, the PGA or the GCSAA run a club. 

Just for reference, the PGA does own and operate the PGA Golf Club in Port St. Lucie, Florida and Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville.

Have you ever received a golf lesson from the PGA or had them ring a shirt for you?   come on Ken..you know what I'm talking about...

What does "ring a shirt" mean?

[Mike_Young]

2.  As of today I have never seen an association, whether it be the CMAA, the PGA or the GCSAA run a club. 

Just for reference, the PGA does own and operate the PGA Golf Club in Port St. Lucie, Florida and Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville.

Have you ever received a golf lesson from the PGA or had them ring a shirt for you?   come on Ken..you know what I'm talking about...

What does "ring a shirt" mean?

Sorry Bill,,,,,to me it means when someone purchases a shirt and they ring it at the register.

[Scott Warren]

Rob Waldron:

We (Billy Casper Golf) receive calls on a daily basis from private clubs seeking assistance or managment alternatives ...Most Boards turn over members so fast that they never have time to understand the business. Private clubs typically operate extremely heavy with labor due to long term employees being compensated in the upper tier of the payscales for their positions ... AT BCG we challenge our Supers to get more out of their existing budgets. Since the Board of Directors are usually not experts in the fields of Agronomy, Golf Operations, F&B, Membership Marketing, FInancial Reporting, and IT they rely on the staff to run the club. In many cases this is like the inmates running the asylum.

Professional golf management companies bring a level of expertise not usually found at private country clubs. By hiring a management company you hire a team of trained experts in all the necessary disciplines of golf course operations...

I always explain to prospective clients (Owners) that at the end of the day they are in complete control of the operation. The management company  merely executes the business plan. A management company can provide insight to the Board of Directors so they can make the decisions ... There are many cases when private clubs tend to make decisions based on emotion as opposed to economics. A good management company will provide the Owner/Board  with the options along with the costs. This way the Owner can apply their preferred level of emotion to make the decisions. Of course the managment company can provide counseling and advice to the Board giving them the proper tools to make the correct decisions.

At the very least I would recommend that private clubs turn to management companies for their expertise in identifying opprtunities to streamline their operations and reduce costs. Based on our experience many Boards would be in for quite a surprise!

I hope BCG doesn't spend money on an external advertising agency, because you just nailed it!

For the TV ad, I'm thinking maybe an up-tempo piano loop a bit like the intro to Clocks by Coldplay playing underneath someone with a nice, deep, reassuring voice reading your post.

For visuals as the above is being narrated, I'm thinking some slow-mo shots in a montage -- a greenkeeper mowing a dewy green, a weathered-looking pro giving a young child (or maybe an old lady) a lesson, definitely lots of people smiling broadly with the occasional shot of people shaking hands, maybe a back-slap or two.

Maybe to close, the shot could be of a group of golf pals comparing scorecards (and laughing, obviously) at a table in the clubhouse as a pretty (but not too pretty) waitress puts down their beers, and the music fades as -- from the table behind them -- BILLY CASPER HIMSELF (!) turns to the camera and delivers that final line of yours: "Based on our experience many Boards would be in for quite a surprise!"

Fade to black and wait for the phones to ring!

[TEPaul]

Mike:

To suggest or to even question if private clubs run by boards are a thing of the past is far too much of a generalization in my opinion. It's like anything else in life-----some people (including some private club boards) know how to do things efficiently and economically and some don't. There are enough old line private clubs out there who always have, and still are, operating just fine to prove this point. Are there some differences and distinctions in MOs that can probably identify why some have always run efficiently and some haven't? Of course there are!

[Rob_Waldron]

 

[Randy St John]

Wow! Some interesting responses....

Steve

I am not saying that all private member owned clubs are mismanaged, just a large number of them. My theory has been certainy confirmed in the past two years as member owned clubs continue to fail. In general I have found the upper tier clubs are so flush with cash that they can continue to operate with inflated expense budgets. These clubs are still commanding high initiation fees and have waiting lists. A large top line can hide a lot of mismanagment. As revenue has declined clubs have begun to realize that they need to address their expense model. We like to refer to this concept as "Right Sizing" expenses.

WE like to refer to this as justifing our existence is also accurate.  Maybe these clubs are flush with cash from top end management?


John

I have a great deal of respect for golf industry professionals including Golf Professionals, Superintendents and GM's. Unfortunately when their boss is Board member who is an Attorney, Accountant or some other non golf industry professional without the golf background it is very difficult for them to obtain professional direction. A management company can provide this professional leadership. Many clubs tend to retain taff members well past their prime. This decision is often based on emotional as opposed to business. The problem arises when the staff member thinks he is control as opposed to the Board. Long term employees are very valuable to private clubs in that they provide a certain consistency and familiarity that is improtant to the membership. My point is that the Board should be made aware of the cost alternatives and performance alternatives in order to make the best decision for their club. Unfortunatley most Board Members are not qualified to evauate their key staff members. This is where a management company or consultant can provide a great deal of assistance by educating Board members who are non-piad volunteers.

And accountants from non-golf industries are qualified? Mismanaged long term employees are a liability, good ones an asset.  Good managers can tell the difference.  If you think that the numbers tell the only (and most important) story, you are making a distinction that the club is a pure business, not a club.  Anyone good at the game knows that the model of clubs is askew in several areas.  That said, isn't it amazing how fine clubs with well maintained facilities, members whose income is appropriate to their desires (who spend their tertiary dollar wisely) and long term, caring employees continue to thrive even in the worst of times?  

Ken

You are absolutely correct with your comment that some management companies have been a disaster for their clients. There is a difference between a professional management company with a vast amount of resources and the New Local Comany which consists of two guys and a couple of cell phones. Many former management company executives have broken away to start their own companies. Some are legit and others just sub contract everything out. When considering a management company it is always important to check references and visit exisiting managed courses. Unfortunately the fly by night companies have given management companies a bad name.

Randy

What can I say I am in sales. I believe in my product and am proud to promote it. Unfortunately I have exerienced mismanagement at a member owned private club first hand. We had a GM and Controller embezzle nearly $2.0 million from my club several years ago. Not every member owned club is mismanaged, must majority of them. I analyze historical golf course financial statements as part of my job. A club on its way down is very easy to identify jsut by looking at the financials. I tried to warn my club, unfortunately too many Board members were on "the take" from the GM and they refused to look into the matter any further. After five years the problem was finally identified and addressed. The GM is in jail.

All of us have heard these stories.  There are bad people in every industry.  Here's a "sales" question for you.  How long does BCG (or the others) keep a client? Is it historically or significantly longer than the tenure of non-paid boards or key professionals? We are all in sales.

Scott

Sounds great! Can you produce the film for us so we can show it before the final round of the 2012 US Open. Billy did defeat Arnold at Olympic for one of his two US Open victories.  

[Ken Fry]

Have you ever received a golf lesson from the PGA or had them ring a shirt for you?   come on Ken..you know what I'm talking about...

Yeh Mike, I have to admit it.  I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  The two facilities I mentioned I know you're familiar with.  They are both run by one of the associations you mention, The PGA.  These are ownership situations not just management.

Yup, I've been on both sides of the lessons and shirt ringing.... 

Ken

[Mike_Young]

Mike:
 Are there some differences and distinctions in MOs that can probably identify why some have always run efficiently and some haven't? Of course there are!

To answer your above question....Yes the biggest difference is the net worth of the memberships.  There are a lot of clubs out there that have debt and some that don't.  The clubs you are familiar with Tom will probably never hve the issues of many of the private clubs around the country.  I think Pellucid says we have dropped form 5.1 mill private club golfers to right at 2 mil in 10 years.  That's a problem for the private club model.

[JMEvensky]

Mike:
 Are there some differences and distinctions in MOs that can probably identify why some have always run efficiently and some haven't? Of course there are!

To answer your above question....Yes the biggest difference is the net worth of the memberships.  There are a lot of clubs out there that have debt and some that don't.  The clubs you are familiar with Tom will probably never hve the issues of many of the private clubs around the country.  I think Pellucid says we have dropped form 5.1 mill private club golfers to right at 2 mil in 10 years.  That's a problem for the private club model.

Mike,wealthy memberships are a big part,but only a part.The biggest advantage wealthy memberships have is their ability to more easily pay for bat shit crazy ideas to appease 5% of the membership.

IMO,so long as member-owned clubs understand who they are,and who their members are,they can survive--maybe even thrive.The problems start when a club starts trying to emulate the club across town or worse,the club some Board member visited for a member guest.

"To thine own self be true" should be posted in every club's Board room.

[Carl Johnson]

Mike:
 Are there some differences and distinctions in MOs that can probably identify why some have always run efficiently and some haven't? Of course there are!

To answer your above question....Yes the biggest difference is the net worth of the memberships.  There are a lot of clubs out there that have debt and some that don't.  The clubs you are familiar with Tom will probably never hve the issues of many of the private clubs around the country.  I think Pellucid says we have dropped form 5.1 mill private club golfers to right at 2 mil in 10 years.  That's a problem for the private club model.

Mike,wealthy memberships are a big part,but only a part.The biggest advantage wealthy memberships have is their ability to more easily pay for bat shit crazy ideas to appease 5% of the membership.

IMO,so long as member-owned clubs understand who they are,and who their members are,they can survive--maybe even thrive.The problems start when a club starts trying to emulate the club across town or worse,the club some Board member visited for a member guest.

"To thine own self be true" should be posted in every club's Board room.

Mine, too.

[SB]

Mike:

To suggest or to even question if private clubs run by boards are a thing of the past is far too much of a generalization in my opinion. It's like anything else in life-----some people (including some private club boards) know how to do things efficiently and economically and some don't. There are enough old line private clubs out there who always have, and still are, operating just fine to prove this point. Are there some differences and distinctions in MOs that can probably identify why some have always run efficiently and some haven't? Of course there are!

Everything on this thread is a gross overgeneralization.  

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