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John Kavanaugh

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How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« on: January 13, 2012, 11:24:28 AM »
Is it just the double greens and crossing fairways or are there other factors?  Do you ever have to wait for cars on the road at the road hole?  How much do the hidden bunkers slow play?

I'm not in the mood to debate the lack of carts but one thing I do like about carts is that they provide shelter when you happen to be in another golfers path.  Nothing like pointing the windshield at a group who is hitting in your direction.
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Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 11:47:28 AM »
I think the double greens are not so much the problem, people play with others on the other one, though you have to wait for strays. The tees are often quite near the previous green that adds a bit of time, the lack of width or greatness of width means a lot of golf is played into the centre is probably the biggest promoter.
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A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
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Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 12:00:58 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 13, 2012, 11:24:28 AM
I'm not in the mood to debate the lack of carts but one thing I do like about carts is that they provide shelter when you happen to be in another golfers path.  Nothing like pointing the windshield at a group who is hitting in your direction.

Careful John.  I would hate to see you get hurt in a cart on the Old Course.  Most carts have a warning label showing a golf ball going through the windshield and maiming someone. 
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Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 12:04:02 PM »
When my late brother-in-law and I used to play the Old Course quite a lot in the 1980s we took about two hours for a round, carrying our clubs without caddies. Our record was 1 hour 45 minutes. This was always around Easter and there were very few visitors at that time of year in those days and the convenience of having the tees right beside the green meant no unnecessary walking to back tees. It also helped that I was a lot better than I am now and he never went over 80. There are very few places on which to have to search for balls if you know where you are going.
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 12:16:39 PM »


Nothing slow about the Old Course, it’s following players old farts like John that cause the real problems. They are just so used to travelling by carts that the care not when they have to walking about other golfers.
Don't agree then tell me why locals play TOC rather quicker than 4 hours.  Some visitors seem to forget to allow golfers to 'play through' but that’s down to common courtesy. Sorry John you may have to look up that word courtesy.

Melvyn
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 12:19:33 PM »
The pros play it very slowly because of all the above factors.  For visitors it can be rather disorienting and it's not always obvious where you are playing to, or walking to next.  I suspect the locals still fly round.  Very short tee to green walks.
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 12:40:09 PM »
The design does not affect the play too much, possibly at the 11th hole and at the 18th (bridge photos, etc); however the additional "rough" on several front nine holes, and to the left of 16 and 17 seem to be the main culprits, according to my mates in the Thursday Club.  Playing all year around 8:30 am they average less than 4 hours, get annoyed when longer than 3.5 hrs.

The "design" promotes danger more than slow play - in 3 years I had several balls fly within inches of my body without injury, other than speeding my pulse for several minutes.   However, there's no better place to gawf your ball, not in this world anyway!
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 12:52:00 PM »
Things seem to bog down a bit in the loop.

I suspect a lot of slow play is due to awestruck rubbernecking by first time visitors.
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Sam Morrow

Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 12:53:09 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on January 13, 2012, 12:52:00 PM
Things seem to bog down a bit in the loop.

I suspect a lot of slow play is due to awestruck rubbernecking by first time visitors.


I know my first time around I wouldn't want to run around, I want to take it in myself.
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Anthony Gray

Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 01:51:01 PM »

  Drivable par 4s and reachable par 5s.

  Anthony

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Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 02:59:26 PM »
I don't think the slow play has anything to do with the design of the course; it has everything to do with having a full time sheet for ten or eleven hours over summer full of once-in-a-lifetime players who play stroke and try on every shot.

Maybe my experience is different to others, but I played a lot of golf on the Old Course in 2006 and 2007, and I don't recall regularly have to wait to play shots because of the double greens, crossing fairways, etc. The only nuisance was occasionally having to wait ten seconds for a car to cross Granny Clark's Wynd before hitting the tee shot on 18.

If anything, I think the design of the course works well for a large-field of visitor golfers - very wide fairways, not a lot of rough.
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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 03:26:36 PM »
The course is playing slow because it's full of tourist who take pictures.... if it was only the local playing, it would play in 3hours...

currently, they try to keep the pace of play on 3h 57 minutes (written on the card and marker)
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David Kelly

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Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 04:29:39 PM »
The only bottleneck I see is 7 and 11, which is the only place that the lines of play crosses.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim Bert

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Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 04:54:34 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 13, 2012, 11:24:28 AM
Is it just the double greens and crossing fairways or are there other factors? 

Out of bounds right on most holes probably contributes as well.
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Bill_Yates

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 07:36:36 PM »
In my opinion, The Old Course was "designed" perfectly to promote the smooth flow of play.  The "slow play" we see now is due in large part to its' reputation and bucket list status for all players, and to today's technology.  When the ball travels farther, (or when players think the ball will travel farther) more real estate is needed to accomodate each group, and waiting to play becomes the new norm. 
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Bill Yates
www.pacemanager.com 
"When you manage the pace of play, you manage the quality of golf."

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 08:15:48 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 13, 2012, 11:24:28 AM
Do you ever have to wait for cars on the road at the road hole? 
Never waited for cars on the road hole, but have on the 18th hole.
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 08:19:29 PM »


My family holding up play in1904



Melvyn
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 08:25:49 PM »
I do not find slow play a real problem there. There is a bit of the treasure every moment going on. I do not see the design or maintenance an issue.
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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2012, 12:13:56 AM »
Quote from: Melvyn Hunter Morrow on January 13, 2012, 08:19:29 PM


My family holding up play in1904



Melvyn

Melvyn,

Which one is you?

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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 12:21:21 PM »
I dunno about you....

...but looks like Old Tom was clearly an advocate of motorized transport on the golf course.  Just sayin...  ;)

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Melvyn Morrow

Re: How does the design of The Old Course promote slow play?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2012, 01:17:00 PM »
Kalen

Please take note all four wheels still in contact with the ground, unlike a certain photo of a cart seen on this site recently

Melvyn
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