[Patrick_Mucci]

Not long ago I was playing with some friends and all of us were driving the ball rather well, with perhaps one exception on the first nine.

When we got to the 10th hole, I mentioned that I always had a difficult time aligning myself on this tee.
The others in the group said they had the same problem.
Not one of us hit the fairway.

After all of us had finished driving, we began discussing WHY we might have a problem with set up or alignment on this hole.

There was something about the shape of the tee and how it related to the features in the DZ and the general configuration of the hole.

I'll Identify the hole later, but, for you, what tees/hole create set-up or alignment problems for you ?

And WHY do you think that is ?

[Pete_Pittock]

I think any time yu have straight line cuts on a tee, either at the sides or front/back that do line up to the preferred landing area the brains automatically aligns with the straight input. It doesn't help when the tee markers also are patterned after the straight cut. Whenever possible I like to enter from the back of the tee (or stand there) to orient to the whole hole rather than the tee. The architect has put you into a box. I'd prefer a circular pattern, which is also easier for maintenance.

[Sean Leary]

Anytime on a teebox where there is trouble right...

[Ronald Montesano]

The perfect storm for me is when the tee deck is misaligned to the target zone. Donald J. did it on the 3rd hole at CCBuffalo. If you aim square to the deck, you end up in the left rough/left fairway bunker.

[Jerry Kluger]

pat: My home course has an uphill par 4 with trees lining both sides and the fairway is higher on the left side in the landing area.  the hole is straight from the back tee but the member tee is set off to the right side making the tee shot extremely awkward and forces you to fade your tee shot.  I see most tee shots wind up in the trees either right or left.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pete,

That's an interesting comment and shows you how different golfers react/interface with the same feature.

I hate circular or free form/ amoeba tees, prefering rectangular tees.

Even if a rectangular tee is misaligned, I can compensate for that, but,  I have a terrible time aligning on circular or free form tees.

When you add an angled fairway to free form tees, especially non-symetrical tees, I have a very difficult time aligning, choosing ball flight and swinging.

I don't know if it's purely visual

[archie_struthers]

 

This begs the question.  Is it good design if the architect makes you uncomfortable  when tryIng to envision the shot/ flight of the ball?

[Steve Scott]

Not long ago I was playing with some friends and all of us were driving the ball rather well, with perhaps one exception on the first nine.

When we got to the 10th hole, I mentioned that I always had a difficult time aligning myself on this tee.
The others in the group said they had the same problem.
Not one of us hit the fairway.

After all of us had finished driving, we began discussing WHY we might have a problem with set up or alignment on this hole.

There was something about the shape of the tee and how it related to the features in the DZ and the general configuration of the hole.

I'll Identify the hole later, but, for you, what tees/hole create set-up or alignment problems for you ?

And WHY do you think that is ?

Sounds like you talked your group into your thinking....a good match play gamesmanship if you ask me

Seriously, I always felt like at least one tee shot on every course I ever played failed to fit my eye and this producing mostly poor swings.  I always felt like I had to work extra hard to discipline myself to take a club off the tee that I could get into play no matter if it left me a longer shot into the green.  Architects surely like to fool the player's eye and mind into thinking one thing but delivering a different result. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

The other fellows were members who played the course almost daily.
It was a friendly, friendly match, with nothing on the line.
Actually, we were all working on different elements of our game.

On this particular course there are a number of tees/visuals from tees that don't fit my eye.
2 on the front nine and 2 on the back nine.

Archie,

Pete's comment would seem to make the architect's task more difficult, for what fits one golfer's eye doesn't fit another's.

You comment got me to thinking and it seems that I'm rarely uncomfortable with an approach, in terms of it fitting my eye, whereas, it seems more common that I'm uncomfortable when on the tee.

[Mark McKeever]

Pat,

The fact that you walk up to the tee and feel uncomfortable before addressing the ball spells bad news right off the bat. 

 Mark

[archie_struthers]

 

I think most of us like a course that sets up well for you. Even with a preference in tee shot shape , some places just fit the eye.  For most of us this gives us comfort, hence we hit it well. So if an architect can get you comfortable you instinctively tend to enjoy the holes.

We tend to curve our iron shots gently, particularly with the new balls and equipment, so Pat's statement about approach shots makes sense . The shorter length softens it to the eye.

As to preferences I much prefer uphill to downhill tee shots , as you can lock in to a spot to land your ball much easier. I would imagine most of us share this opinion.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

I only feel uncomfortable on the tee as I take in the visuals.

Archie,

Agree on the uphill tee shot.
Downhill tee shots, especially from very elevated tees make me uncomfortable

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Pat,

  I too have issue with "round" or other tee box cuts that aren't squared; it's probably just something subconcious.  I find it easier to line myself up with the squared edge of a rectangular tee box. 

Archie,

  I definitely think there is a level of comfort when looking at a course right off the bat, certain bunker styles, or the appearance of the terrain, may make us inherently comfortable or not.  I think a lot of this comes down to personal tastes and preferences. 
"Horses for courses" certainly!  The first time I played Tobacco Road, in October of 2005, on the Dixie Cup trip, even though the course can be visually intimidating, I felt very comfortable, probably because of the scrubby pines and sandy soils, which reminded me of South Jersey, so I felt very comfortable and very much at home.  (My big hook off the first tee on Friday was just nerves).



Question to all, what about this-numberous times, I've been at Bethpage, and the grounds staff basically throws the tees into the ground--anywhere--resulting in tees that can point anywhere. 

[Chris_Hufnagel]

#6 at Kingsley always gives me fits...

I find the hole visually intimidating from every box and even though the shot looks fairly straight-forward when looking back at the tee from the landing zone - I never fail to have a hard time committing to the right shot.

I know a hybrid off the tee with with a slight cut will (most likely) hold the slope and leave a fairly straightforward approach to the green - however, nine times out of ten I either block it way to the right (which makes for an impossible approach) or I get quick and hit it hard down the left which is a slightly easier second shot, but nonetheless very demanding.

If you were to ask me to hit a soft cut on virtually any other hole at any time - I could probably pull it off fairly consistently, but not this hole.

I have spent more time than I wish to admit looking for my golf ball here in the rough (deep in some places) and I would estimate the fairway is probably 65 yards wide at its widest - although given the slope from right to left - I would estimate the effective landing zone to be much smaller.

I love this hole - but no tee at Kingsley is as intimidating as this one - well, I take that back...maybe #2 should be in the running...

[Ian Andrew]

Each comment says something about how each person's brain processes information.
You can't design discomfort uniformly since each person reacts differently to different stimulus.

I can't miss a blind tee shot - that suggests that I only get intimidated by what I know to be a problem
… ie, I think too much.


BTW I have yet to find a quote from an architect who talks about intentionally misaligning tees as a tactic.
Does anyone know of such a quote?

[Tim Martin]

Each comment says something about how each person's brain processes information.
You can't design discomfort uniformly since each person reacts differently to different stimulus.

I can't miss a blind tee shot - that suggests that I only get intimidated by what I know to be a problem
… ie, I think too much.


BTW I have yet to find a quote from an architect who talks about intentionally misaligning tees as a tactic.
Does anyone know of such a quote?

Ian-Although you can`t site a specific quote from an archie I think you would agree that there are many misaligned tees out there. The tee shot on 10 at Yale has given me trouble for as long as I have been playing it.

[Jud_T]

#6 at Kingsley always gives me fits...

I find the hole visually intimidating from every box and even though the shot looks fairly straight-forward when looking back at the tee from the landing zone - I never fail to have a hard time committing to the right shot.

I know a hybrid off the tee with with a slight cut will (most likely) hold the slope and leave a fairly straightforward approach to the green - however, nine times out of ten I either block it way to the right (which makes for an impossible approach) or I get quick and hit it hard down the left which is a slightly easier second shot, but nonetheless very demanding.

If you were to ask me to hit a soft cut on virtually any other hole at any time - I could probably pull it off fairly consistently, but not this hole.

I have spent more time than I wish to admit looking for my golf ball here in the rough (deep in some places) and I would estimate the fairway is probably 65 yards wide at its widest - although given the slope from right to left - I would estimate the effective landing zone to be much smaller.

I love this hole - but no tee at Kingsley is as intimidating as this one - well, I take that back...maybe #2 should be in the running...

Chris,

This is interesting.  I'm assuming you're right handed.  As a lefty, this wouldn't be the hole I'd think of first.  Personally I have more trouble with 3 and 15.  Step back to the tips and rip a driver at the far bunkers on the hill next time...

[PThomas]

Downhill tee shots, especially from very elevated tees make me uncomfortable

and then there's Jack , who (used to or still does?) prefers to design holes that are/look downhill

[Chris_Hufnagel]

#6 at Kingsley always gives me fits...

I find the hole visually intimidating from every box and even though the shot looks fairly straight-forward when looking back at the tee from the landing zone - I never fail to have a hard time committing to the right shot.

I know a hybrid off the tee with with a slight cut will (most likely) hold the slope and leave a fairly straightforward approach to the green - however, nine times out of ten I either block it way to the right (which makes for an impossible approach) or I get quick and hit it hard down the left which is a slightly easier second shot, but nonetheless very demanding.

If you were to ask me to hit a soft cut on virtually any other hole at any time - I could probably pull it off fairly consistently, but not this hole.

I have spent more time than I wish to admit looking for my golf ball here in the rough (deep in some places) and I would estimate the fairway is probably 65 yards wide at its widest - although given the slope from right to left - I would estimate the effective landing zone to be much smaller.

I love this hole - but no tee at Kingsley is as intimidating as this one - well, I take that back...maybe #2 should be in the running...

Chris,

This is interesting.  I'm assuming you're right handed.  As a lefty, this wouldn't be the hole I'd think of first.  Personally I have more trouble with 3 and 15.  Step back to the tips and rip a driver at the far bunkers on the hill next time...

I am a righty - this hole just kills me and I have been thinking about it non-stop since I made the last post...as for ripping a driver here - I have never done it, but played with several guys who have and have mostly ended up with pretty good results near the neck leading into the green.  However, this hole gets really interesting with a 1/4 wedge into it...perhaps I need to drop a few balls here next spring and see how I could do running a little chip and even trying putter...I guess if you aim far enough right with the right pace it might not be a bad option.

As for 3 and 15, the third is one of my favorite tee shots at Kingsley - I love the angle and the choices that are presented.  I have to admit I have been down by that birch tree on more than one occasion.  As for fifteen, that is an easy tee shot for me - I am not good enough of a player to play it as a par four so I often hit hybrid off the tee to the right hand side of the fairway and then hit something hard up the left hand side and then hope for an up-and-down or even an up-up-and down.  Five for me here is just fine and I am running to the water cooler at the sixteenth tee...

[Jim Tang]

The 12th at Ballyneal.  The bunker left and enormous dropoff right shrink the landing area down to nothing.  The fact you've been playing enormous fairways all day long to that point shrinks the fairway even more in your mind, which I think is the key defense of the hole.  Throw in some wind and my golf swing, which resembles an Eastern European underground club dance move, and I'm done.

[Wade Whitehead]

In my experience uncomfortable set ups are all about diagonals.  12 at Augusta causes everyone to squirm, nearly entirely because the green is turned just a few degrees.

Diagonal fairways can cause all sorts of alignment issues.  I've watched players at Ballyhack aim thirty or forty yards from their intended lines because fairways - and greens - don't run straight away from the player.  Throw in wind and you've got a real problem.

Example: the fairway on number nine at Ballyhack runs at a diagonal (from left to right).  The green is visible from the tee but is well right of the intended line from the tee.  Wind is typically straight into.  Players tend to aim too far right (looking toward to green) and compensate by cutting across the bodies during the swing (in an effort to pull the ball online).  The outside-in path causes a fade that starts online, then cuts toward the right rough/death; the is exacerbated by the common wind, which turns that "fade" into a slice.  Result?  Not good.

All of this is caused by discomfort on the tee.  There is ample fairway and hole doesn't require prodigious distance (unless the wind is really whipping).  It's just that the visuals caused by the angled fairway and the omnipresent green cause players to aim right AND not realize they are doing it.

WW

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