Riviera, why doesn't Tiger play there?

[Tim Leahy]

I remember watching Tiger play Riviera when he was 16 and still an amatuer. LA is his hometown, he should be playing at Riviera. Riviera is one of the true great courses still on the PGA tour, the field there should be a great one. He would have the home crowd there to help him, anyone know why Tiger and many of the other top 50 don't play there?

[Jed Peters]

Money and lack of prestige.

Really?

[PThomas]

interesting that neither he nor Jack has won an LA Open

[David Panzarasa]

I have heard a few times its the greens....
 After this tournament, they head for one last "semi-west coast tournament", then they get into the Florida Swing/Masters....where the greens and putting are drastically different. I have heard this for a few years now. They (Tiger in particular) hate the greens here in LA, which "screw" his putting up. I would venture with his poor putting now, he will be avoiding it even longer

[Joe Grasty]

Riviera doesn't "fit his eye".

[Lynn_Shackelford]

1.  Doesn't like what the greens do to his putting stroke.
2.  Got struck in traffic once, that was enough.
3.  Fulfilled his obligation to ownership for letting him in at age 16 by playing there about 8 straight years after that.
4.  For most players is it in effect a par 70, 1st hole is driver iron par 5.  So a decent round for him there is 16 pars and two 4's on the two other par 5s.  On other courses, Doral, and such, he has 4 par 5's he can make four on and have a significant advantage for 4 rounds, not so at Riv.
5.  Wants to save himself for Florida tour which is closer to where he lives.

[DMoriarty]

Because he is 0 for 11 at Riviera?

Judging by his taste in chippies, Tiger prefers more of a sure thing.

[Pete Lavallee]

The plain and simple fact is that Tiger can't beat up the field on the par 5's there. Everyone easliy reaches #1, most are hitting 5 iron or less. Hardly anyone reaches #17; it calls for a 3 wood which is always risky. He does have an edge on #11; but that only offers 4 chances in the tournament, which apparently is not enough for him to dominate. To think he can't handle the greens is absurd, he grew up playing on these type of greens and should putt them better than most.  

[mike_beene]

Tiger is a pretty reclusive tournament golfer.Plays early practice rounds and likes to go somewhere away from tournament to do any more work.Hard to find a quiet place to disappear in LA.

[Jim Nugent]

I think David and Lynn have it.  Tiger has putted terribly at Riviera.  PGATour.com did an article about that several years ago.  They found he played the par 5s fine, but his putting was awful.  Here is the whole (!) article:

Analysis of Woods at the Nissan Open
By Mike Vitti
PGA TOUR staff    
 
Since turning pro in 1996, Tiger Woods has played in the Nissan Open eight times. The native Californian also played in the tournament twice as an amateur.

Yet, the Nissan Open is the only tournament that Woods has played at least three times and not recorded a victory. It is intriguing to ponder why.

Seven of the eight years in which Woods has played in the Nissan Open the tournament was held at Riviera Country Club. The lone exception is 1998 when Valencia Country Club hosted the event and Woods finished second to Billy Mayfair in sudden death -- his only loss in 10 playoffs on the PGA TOUR.

So since Woods almost won at Valencia -- and it was a one-time move, I focused on his seven starts as a professional at the Riviera Country Club.

It is truly difficult to say that Woods has struggled at the Nissan Open or that the course confounds him in any way. In three of his starts, Woods placed in the top 10 and he has an average finish of 11th overall. The worst finish he has ever recorded in the tournament was a tie for 20th in 1997 -- his first start at Riviera as a pro.

Woods' scoring average on the par-71 layout is 69.07, and 16 of his 30 rounds have been in the 60s. Still, 1999 is the only year in which Woods put four rounds under par together in the same tournament, and as well as he has played at Riviera, Woods has never finished less than two shots behind the leader.
Woods at the Nissan Open
Year            Winner    Score to Par    Woods' Finish    Woods' Score
2005         Adam Scott          -9             T-13                     -5
2004         Mike Weir            -17             T-7                        -10
2003         Mike Weir            -9              T-5                      -6
2001         Robert Allenby    -8             T-13                        -5
2000         Kirk Triplett       -12            T-18                        -5
1999         Ernie Els            -14           T-2                         -12
1997         Nick Faldo           -12           T-20                       -3

As with most courses, Woods takes advantage of the par 5s -- making birdie or better roughly 57 percent of the time. Some of this strong play on the par 5s has been tempered, though, by his scoring on the par 3s where he has recorded more bogeys (19) than he has birdies (14). This par-3 difference, while interesting, cannot be the sole reason for Woods' victory drought at Riviera.

Where is Woods losing ground? The answer lies on the greens.

While many of his statistics in the ball-striking categories rival and exceed the same stats for the winners, his putting averages have usually lagged behind that of the eventual champ. The one exception to this came in 1997 when Woods' putting statistics were close to the winner, Nick Faldo, but he hit seven less greens in regulation than the Brit.
Nissan Open 1997-2005, Winners Putting Statistics
Year    Winner                 Putting Average    Putts per round    3 putts    One Putts
2005    Adam Scott           1.615                      26.00                  0        18
2004    Mike Weir             1.543                       24.75                    0        39
2003    Mike Weir            1.717                        27.00                      0        30
2001    Robert Allenby    1.712                       28.75                           0        28
2000    Kirk Triplett           1.661                      29.50                          0        26
1999    Ernie Els                 1.574                         26.50                          0        34
1997    Nick Faldo             1.652                      26.25                  0        37

Nissan Open 1997-2005, Tiger Woods Putting Statistics
Year    Putting Average    Putts per round    3 putts    One Putts
2005    1.815    30.00    3    15
2004    1.633    28.00    1    33
2003    1.729    28.50    4    30
2001    1.850    27.75    1    20
2000    1.882    29.50    4    29
1999    1.729    27.75    0    33
1997    1.744    26.75    1    34

Often putting issues are the result of poor positioning on the greens, but in the two four-round, ShotLink-era events (2003 and 2004) Woods ranked in the top 20 in average proximity to the hole on approach. While this is a subset of his appearances at Riviera, it tends to point more to a lack of comfort on the greens than issues with attacking the pins.

None of the winners ever three-putted during the week, while Woods only managed to go without a three-putt in 1999 -- and that year he averaged more than one extra putt per round, yet still finished only two shots out of first place. Add up the strokes left on the greens, and that would have put Woods in a tie for the lead or even given him the outright victory.

Once Woods solves the mystery on the greens at Riviera Country Club, look for him to add at least one more trophy to his ever-expanding collection.

[Scott Warren]

I was talking about Riv with a mate today. He was asking me what kind of golfer I thought he should be looking at for his fantasy golf pick this week.

I said I thought that with the kikuyu rough being so tough to play from and the greens being so well defended but pretty sedate internally, that I'd be looking for a flusher who hit plenty of fairways and greens, but wasn't necessarily among the great putters.

That was just from instinct, but then when I thought about it, the three Aussies to win at Riv in my viewing years - Elkington, Scott and Allenby - all fit that description. I reckon Els does as well to an extent. I'm not familiar enough with Weir or Triplett to know if they do.

Is there something in that, or is it just a bit of coincidence?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I was talking about Riv with a mate today. He was asking me what kind of golfer I thought he should be looking at for his fantasy golf pick this week.

I said I thought that with the kikuyu rough being so tough to play from and the greens being so well defended but pretty sedate internally, that I'd be looking for a flusher who hit plenty of fairways and greens, but wasn't necessarily among the great putters.

That was just from instinct, but then when I thought about it, the three Aussies to win at Riv in my viewing years - Elkington, Scott and Allenby - all fit that description. I reckon Els does as well to an extent. I'm not familiar enough with Weir or Triplett to know if they do.

Is there something in that, or is it just a bit of coincidence?

I think so.  They keep lengthening the course but the short hitters have always done well there.  Couples is an exception.  The greens are pretty small so if someone aimed for the middle of each green and was successful in doing so, one would have a birdie putt on about every hole(exceptions would be #1,#14&#15).

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I was talking about Riv with a mate today. He was asking me what kind of golfer I thought he should be looking at for his fantasy golf pick this week.

I said I thought that with the kikuyu rough being so tough to play from and the greens being so well defended but pretty sedate internally, that I'd be looking for a flusher who hit plenty of fairways and greens, but wasn't necessarily among the great putters.

That was just from instinct, but then when I thought about it, the three Aussies to win at Riv in my viewing years - Elkington, Scott and Allenby - all fit that description. I reckon Els does as well to an extent. I'm not familiar enough with Weir or Triplett to know if they do.

Is there something in that, or is it just a bit of coincidence?

I think so.  They keep lengthening the course but the short hitters have always done well there.  Couples is an exception.  The greens are pretty small so if someone aimed for the middle of each green and was successful in doing so, one would have a birdie putt on about every hole(exceptions would be #1,#14&#15).

[Philippe Binette]

Didn't Tiger stop playing in the Nissan Open in 2006 as he was signed by Buick that year, so he had to play most Buick event and as he wanted to play only 20 events a year ithe Nissan Open got bumped out.

[George Pazin]

For those saying it's the lack of par 5s, how do you account for the success of quite a few longer players (Freddie, Phil, etc)? Sure there have been shorter hitters as well, but that just speaks to the overall brilliance of the course, it surely doesn't count out Tiger and a length advantage.

[David Kelly]

I think it is a question of Woods focusing his schedule around the venues where he thinks he can win.  Mickelson does the same thing, he lives in California and has always played well on the west coast so he loads up on tournaments out here (San Diego, Phoenix, LA, Pebble, Match play, sometimes the Hope).

I doubt Tiger cares one way or the other about Riviera, its architecture or its history.

Also he is an Orange County guy not a Los Angeles guy.

[Sean Leary]

I think it is a question of Woods focusing his schedule around the venues where he thinks he can win.  Mickelson does the same thing, he lives in California and has always played well on the west coast so he loads up on tournaments out here (San Diego, Phoenix, LA, Pebble, Match play, sometimes the Hope).

I doubt Tiger cares one way or the other about Riviera, its architecture or its history.

Also he is an Orange County guy not a Los Angeles guy.

Agreed. And he certainly isn't going to play it if it would mean playing 3 weeks in a row while flying across the world from Dubai.

[Sam Kestin]

To me, I think the argument that holds the most water is Tiger's frustration with Poa greens. I remember vividly Tiger four-putting the 13th one year...with 3 of the putts coming from inside 6 feet. I don't know what year that was, but I'm reasonably sure that it was either his last or second to last trip to Riviera. Besides the 6+ hour giggle-fest rounds, I know this is one of the contributing factors to Tiger sitting out Pebble in perpetuity. I forget where I heard this, but I remember someone describing a story of him not even catching hole from 2 feet at Pebble one year and then telling his caddy "I'm f**king done with this place."

The scheduling aspect to it is definitely part of the equation as well. I can't think of the last time Tiger played three weeks in a row...and with Dubai a week before and the WGC-Match Play a week after I think we've seen the last of TW at Riviera. Every year there is speculation he will make his return to Riviera, but every year he opts out. Though I'd love to see him play LA, I'm done listening to those annual unfounded rumors. The place where Tiger has trimmed the most fat from his PGA Tour schedule is the West Coast...and historically once he stops coming to a given tournament he doesn't change his mind.

What surprises me most about it, however, is how competitive Tiger is. I used to think the very fact its the only place hes played 8+ times and not won once might bring him back...because things like that (and Sabattini, Ames and so on popping off about him) usually tend to inspire him instead of push him away. I don't think he'd bail on it simply because he doesn't think he can win there.

Best chance to see TW at Riviera will be if the Club gets a major sometime in the next 10-15 years...but unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon. Chambers Bay, Torrey Pines and Pebble preclude another West Coast US Open venue anytime soon and I doubt the PGA of America will be coming back to Riviera after all the hullabaloo regarding the greens for the 1995 PGA Championship. Furthermore, given the course's location, all the ancillary logistical matters that come part and parcel to hosting a major championship weigh strongly against a USGA or PGA of America major event coming back to Riviera.