[Jeff Mingay]

I've heard about a plan Donald Ross made shortly before his death in 1948 to redo his original 1917 design at Oakland Hills (South). Does this plan exist? (Brad Klein?) I'd love to see it.

Are there any other similar cases, in which the original architect re-did his own original design years after the course in question originally opened for play? I'm particularly interested in info. about "Golden Age guys" redoing their own work. And what prompted the redos?

A recent example is Pete Dye. He's redone his original works at Oak Tree and Crooked Stick in preparation for their repsective PGA Championships, Harbor Town, Long Cove and Avalon Lakes in Ohio, amongst a few others I'm sure.

Any info. would be helpful. Thanks,

[Chris_Clouser]

One prominent example I can think of was Perry Maxwell and Dornick Hills.  He came back and redid much of his original nine holes after he went to Scotland and saw how courses over there were laid out and how greens were incorporated into the landscape.  I was thinking I read in Klein's Ross book that maybe he did this on one of his courses, or maybe I'm mistaken.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ron Whitten has seen the Oakland Hills plan.  He says it was remarkably similar to the RTJ plan implemented.  It seems Ross would have done the redo, except for his untimely death in 1948.  Jones actually used much of his plan, according to Ron, but the bunker style was obviously RTJ.  Ross also moved bunkers back to accomodate increasing distance, added bunkers to fortify the test, etc.

[Jeff Mingay]

Jeff,

I find it hard to believe Ross planned to bunker Oakland Hills South in similar fashion to the scheme implemented by Trent Jones.

Not that I think you're making this up. It's just I find it hard to believe  

Considering we'll be at Oakland Hills together this Sunday, I look forward to talking more with you about this very subject!

Until then,

[Ran Morrissett]

The plans are either with the Green Keeper or in the clubhouse at Oakland Hills.  Jeff, don't you doubt that Ross would have pinched in as many fairways as RTJ ultimately ended up doing? Seems to repetious for Ross.

Another person who has seen the plan did say that Ross's second plan removed several of the existing cross bunkers, realizing that they were no longer in play except for the duff.

I hope RW sees this thread as facts are always helpful, even in this DG sometimes  

[Chip Royce]

Pete Dye is one that seems to be doing much of this in recent years. Of course, we know all about his tinkering with the TPC of Sawgrass.
Most recently Pete returned to the Landfall Club, Wilmington, NC, to help tweak the Dye 18 there. The members had major irrigation work to do, and while they dug up the course, Dye came in and was able to make many changes to greens (soften contours to allow for higher green speeds and new grasses), hazards and bunkers, and a few other modifications.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Chip,

       Is it Pete Dye doing all the mod's at TPC at Sawgrass or is it Bobby Weed.  I thought he has been responsible for most of the softening of the course.

[ian]

Every architect would find something they wish they did different on each course they've done. They all wish they could fix it because it probably bothers them each time they are there.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ran and Jeff,

That is what I heard as well - basically moving the bunkers back to the pros landing areas of the day, but not necessarily the exact same pattern.

I'm not sure that I haven't seen the plan myself.  Once, on a flight into Detroit, I stopped by the maintenacne building to ask permssion to tour the course.  I had called ahead but got no answer.  When I got there, it was open, but still no one there.  There were a stack of old plans, including some by Ross and RTJ on a table, which I looked at liesurely, hoping the superintendent would come back and escort me on the course.

I hate to admit it, but I was tempted - for probably the only time in my life, even for a second! - to steal something!  My conscience prevailed, however. My plan collection did not!

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