[Forrest Richardson]

Bill — Your point is well taken: Clubhouses can be well-overrated, and costly. However, at Papago the financial pro forma relied heavily on group bookings and group use...that does not happen in a trailer. People will go to nearby Karsten, Arizona Grand or any number of full-built facilities that have reasonable rates. I believe it will also force the (non-member) facility to lessen its rates — and that is the kiss-of-death in these economic times.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill — Your point is well taken: Clubhouses can be well-overrated, and costly. However, at Papago the financial pro forma relied heavily on group bookings and group use...that does not happen in a trailer. People will go to nearby Karsten, Arizona Grand or any number of full-built facilities that have reasonable rates. I believe it will also force the (non-member) facility to lessen its rates — and that is the kiss-of-death in these economic times.

Big difference public vs private.

If anybody could show me how a big clubhouse with catering staff, banquets, etc, lots of under-utilized space, actually makes bottom line money, I'd be grateful.  It's usually an ego deal for the members to have a place for their daughters to get married.

[Tom Yost]

Now the lawyers are getting involved - More news from today's AZ Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/12/24/20091224phx-papagofolo1226.html

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Thanks for posting this Tom

As usual, the comments from the public are very revealing.

[Mike Cirba]

Two questions;

1) What, if anything can be learned from this whole process on what worked and what didn't work from soup to nuts in the renovation project at Papago?

2) If a person were looking for a cheap game of golf on an interesting architectural course during a single day in Scottsdale/Phoenix, would Papago still be a good choice?

Thanks for any and all feedback.

[Forrest Richardson]

One of the first things that comes to mind is that the City paid for a system-wide study...then pretty much ignored it. While the study never got into detail on how to restore Papago, it made a good case for finding a qualified group to underwrite the work, build a new clubhouse (or rebuild the old one) and pay a guaranteed lease to the City. Without getting into details, the City opted for variations on all of these recommendations for Papago — and have wound up with a difficult situation that is not really in their control any longer.

You would enjoy Papago, but I keep hearing there are things not up to snuff. I know they need business, so maybe it should be a part of your plans!

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