[Steve Salmen]

Sean,

With all do respect, I must take exception with your description of #9.  IF there is a weakness with it, it's a little short for today's equipment. 

I think it's fantastic (probably par 4.5) because of how the tee shot sets up the rest of the hole.  If you play bold, you have a direct route to the green but run the risk of going left into nasty rough, the beach, or the sea.  If you hang on and leave it out to the right a little, your ball will either kick into the rough or wind up in very undulating, uneven ground.  Now, real fun begins because if you want to go for the green.  Not only will you probably have an awkward stance, you have to negotiate what I believe to be some of the most difficult bunkers on the course (the right 2 greenside traps).

This hole is quite difficult when it's downwind because it's hard to stop any shot on the green.  It becomes ridiculously hard coming in from the right side.  Run up shots from long distances must be precise because of the slopes running toward the bunkers left and right. This is also a very hard green to read.

The more I think about it, the more I think #9 is a lot stronger than #12.  On #12, the drive is easier, and it's not that hard to get up and down from short and right or the greenside bunker.

[John Mayhugh]

Interesting that our transatlantic cousins have gone for number 6 because it doesn't have a view.

Cousins is plural.  So far, Anthony Gray is the only person I've seen that suggested the 6th was weak because it is "is forced into the bank."  There is at least one American who sincerely hopes he was joking.  That's a fantastic hole.

[Sean_A]

Sean,

With all do respect, I must take exception with your description of #9.  IF there is a weakness with it, it's a little short for today's equipment. 

I think it's fantastic (probably par 4.5) because of how the tee shot sets up the rest of the hole.  If you play bold, you have a direct route to the green but run the risk of going left into nasty rough, the beach, or the sea.  If you hang on and leave it out to the right a little, your ball will either kick into the rough or wind up in very undulating, uneven ground.  Now, real fun begins because if you want to go for the green.  Not only will you probably have an awkward stance, you have to negotiate what I believe to be some of the most difficult bunkers on the course (the right 2 greenside traps).

This hole is quite difficult when it's downwind because it's hard to stop any shot on the green.  It becomes ridiculously hard coming in from the right side.  Run up shots from long distances must be precise because of the slopes running toward the bunkers left and right. This is also a very hard green to read.

The more I think about it, the more I think #9 is a lot stronger than #12.  On #12, the drive is easier, and it's not that hard to get up and down from short and right or the greenside bunker.

Steve

Thats part of my point. One can get a 5 on #9 without much thought or effort.  The water is not a hazard which has to be dealt with to gain a par.  Its not a bad hole by any means, but given its prime real estate  - it isn't a hole any designer should push forward as stellar design.  I MUCH prefer 12 as a half par hole and the sea can barely be heard - tee hee.  

Ciao

[Brent Hutto]

Thats part of my point. One can get a 5 on #9 without much thought or effort.  The water is not a hazard which has to be dealt with to gain a par.  Its not a bad hole by any means, but given its prime real estate  - it isn't a hole any designer should push forward as stellar design.  I MUCH prefer 12 as a half par hole and the sea can barely be heard - tee hee.  

Sean,

That's a fine, succinct explanation of an opinion I completely share concerning the ninth hole (and the twelfth for that matter). Totally concur. As with many holes at links courses, sufficient wind can make it quite difficult and bring big numbers into play but the hole per se is not among the most memorable at RDGC aside from its setting.

[Niall C]

Interesting that our transatlantic cousins have gone for number 6 because it doesn't have a view.

Cousins is plural.  So far, Anthony Gray is the only person I've seen that suggested the 6th was weak because it is "is forced into the bank."  There is at least one American who sincerely hopes he was joking.  That's a fantastic hole.

John

I've already been corrected as I actually meant the 7th. Just back from Castle Stuart and they will tell you there that from market testing its what Americans go for which is why Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart are designed the way they are and why Dornoch is so popular with Americans. Nothing wrong with that, just a matter of taste.

Sean

Mark Parsinen did a similar hole to no. 16 Dornoch at Kingsbarns, I think it is the 4th or 5th, can't remember which order those two come in.

Niall

[James Boon]

I like the 7th green, but I don't care for the lay out of the hole - dead straight between banks of gorse.  The bunkering isn't inspired - all in all not a very Dornochish hole. 

I am skeptical of 16, but I sort of like the slippery slope left over perdition.  This hole is a keeper because it is unique - quick, name another hole like it? 

#1 is a fine starting hole - I like to ease into a game.  #17 is a no-brainer wonderful hole. 

I am surprised no-one mentioned #9.  For a hole hugging the shore it is distinctly average. 

I would also take aim at #13.  This par 3 adds nothing to the design and I hate the awkward walk involved.  This is certainly the hole I like the least at Dornoch. 

Even with a small handful of holes which are not up to much, Dornoch could never be accused of being a 16 hole course; good, bad or indifferent.

Ciao

Sean,

The 13th is certainly the lesser of the par 3s, not a bad hole, just that there are 3 better. Its also not helped by the fact that off the back of the 12th green is the tee for Foxy... so tempting! I wonder how many people have accidentally missed the strange walk back to the 13th tee, thus missing the hole by mistake?

Cheers,

James

[Gary Slatter]

Marty, along a similar vein, how would you complete this sentence:

The Old Course - the best ** hole golf course in the world ?

[Brett Hochstein]

Let me add to the 7/16 group.

I don't hate 7, but if you are going to talk weak holes relative to the course, I would have to add this one.  It is just a bit straight away and simple (I don't mind the lack of view part--actually sort of like the break and change of scenery), and the heavier soils and proficiency of pasture grasses is really a links turn-off.

16 is just odd, and not in any sort of charming or quirky way.  The wide drive and blind shot I can live with.  It is the green that ruins it.  It could not be any more out of place with the rest of the course, and there just isn't much to it.  The grass covered mounds are strange but not intriguing or interesting.  And anyone saying angle matters, it really doesn't that much.  I was way right and hit a 3 wood up to the right side of the green no problem.  Perhaps I am trying to disprove the rule with the exception, but in analyzing the hole, I am sure this type of shot execution is fairly common.

That said, people asked me what my favorite course was on my Highland trip (Tain, Dornoch, Brora, Castle Stuart), and I always cringed trying to decide as I love aspects of them all.  As far as a golf course goes, I can't stop thinking about Dornoch.  Nothing is really THAT standout, it is just a really, really solid golf course.  And I hate to be cliche, but you can say that about a lot of Ross courses as well. 

[Kevin Pallier]

I didn't mind # 16 - to me it was a link or breather hole of sorts. I wasn't so enamoured by # 7.

[Jon Wiggett]

Steve

Thats part of my point. One can get a 5 on #9 without much thought or effort.  The water is not a hazard which has to be dealt with to gain a par.  Its not a bad hole by any means, but given its prime real estate  - it isn't a hole any designer should push forward as stellar design.  I MUCH prefer 12 as a half par hole and the sea can barely be heard - tee hee.  

Ciao

Sean,

If you place a ball in the fairway at around your 4 iron to 3 wood range you are faced with one hell of a challenging shot to get the ball on the green and for it to stay there. I agree that if you play the strategy of 3 shots to the green then it is a fairly straight forward 5 but then again so is the road hole at TOC and that is not a weak hole. Surely you of all people have not fallen into the trap of judging a hole by its par rather than its playing merits

Jon

[Garland Bayley]

It seems to me you have three options. Drop 1 and 2, drop 1 and 18, or drop 17 and 18. Otherwise, you have too long a walk between holes, which would make it a cartball course.

[Jim McCann]

Hard to believe NOBODY has mentioned the 18th at Dornoch as - in my opinion - one
of the most anti climatic finishes to a top rated course in Scotland!!!

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