[mike_malone]

 How will the tree affect play in another 20 years?  The variability of the tree as a hazard works against its usefullness.

  

[Charlie Goerges]

The variability of the tree as a hazard works against its usefullness.  

You may be right about the usefulness, but does everything have to be useful and be judged on usefulness? If golf were a zero-sum game I'd be inclined to say yes, but I don't think it is.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike, unless the tree is replaced in about two years the question will be moot.

For me there are two irreplacable trees on the Black, both never planned and yet integral to the minds of most who love the course. The first, the large red maple that guarded the corner of the first hole before it died in 2006, has been replaced by several smaller ones. I am not a fan of this. Originally thios hole had several bunkers designed to line the entire length of the hole from tee to green. These were never installed as concerns over safety for those playing the green course were considered and the trees in that rough area were planted instead.

The other one is this on the 8th. I have been fascinated by it since I first saw it in 1967 and, in a sense, to me it is an old welcome friend guarding the hole and challenging the player. As we have seen, there are pros and cons as to whether it is a good feature for the hole. As an accident of bnature and poor maintenance I consider that top be proof of how nature itself can present challenges to our courses in the same manner as one might view the sand dunes of a seaside links. Many of the world's great hazards, quite unfair and punishing to all or just some are every bit the uenxpected hand of Mother Nature as this tree is.

That is the whole point for my bringing up this discussion and why I am wondering if there are other "accidents of nature" invovling trees that are now integral to courses and their evolved design. 

[Todd Bell]

What about the 5th at Crystal Downs? 

[Mike Nuzzo]

It sure would be cool to see a beginner, that is afraid to hit over the water, throw a low ball into the hill and have it run onto the green.
Why would you want to stop someone from trying such a shot?
Cheers

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

Any ball that would hit into the face of the hill would only bury in the sand. It would not skip out onto the green. Plus, beginners who play the Black deserve two things. to be beat up as badly as possible by the course so that they will understand just how far they need to go to be able to play it and the joy of having played one of the great golf courses of the world... This is one course where the two are not mutually exclusive.

[Tom MacWood]

I dislike the tree. I'd remove it and re-establish Tilly's design. Restore the rugged bunker on the hill and gut Rees' stylized version of the bunker on the left.  Why does Jones feel the need to put his stamp on all of Tilly's bunkers?

[mike_malone]

 Phil,

     If your title was  "how unplanned trees change the architecture of holes" then the responses may have been different. But you used "enhance".

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

So I take it you are of the opinion that an unplanned tree NEVER enhances a hole? By the way, since this is a question whose answer is based upon personal opinion absolutely everyone is correct...

[mike_malone]

    Phil,


     I think your basic idea has merit to be discussed. "How volunteer trees can affect architecture in unintended but interesting ways". But you chose an example that you felt enhanced the merit and many disagreed that it enhanced the hole but rather detracted.

[Phil_the_Author]

That is true, but I'd still like to see examples of ones that others feel fit this idea...

[Bill Brightly]

OK Phil, here is a tree that probably fits the bill:





It is the 14th at Hackensack (Banks) a short par 4 that plays 340-360 from a highly elevated tee. Because of the greenside bunkering, the best approach is from the right side of the fairway, but of course, the tree obscures that view.

The elevation of the tee is such that I can can hit any club over the tree,but a low driver or 3 wood will not clear it. I hit 5 wood over it, or a faded three wood, leaving 110-120 in, so I may hit the tree once a year, if that. But that tree certainly leads many players to play too far to the left, either in the left fairway bunkers or leaving a much tougher approach to the green.

I go back and forth in my mind about  this tree, because shorter hitters can't clear it...But it definitely adds to the challenge, especially those who try to blast a driver over the tree and past all the fairway bunkers.

[Lyne Morrison]

Bill I would say this tree doesn’t work for many of the reasons you cited in the earlier example.

I think it is also fair to say that golfers in general look forward to the thrill of getting a decent tee shot away without having to resort to unreasonable manoeuvring at the outset. I’m of the view that these trees detract from the intent of the holes.

Having the red tee sited behind the tree is not only an irritation - we should question if it is reasonable to expect short hitters and the less accomplished to deal with this scenario before they can move on with playing the golf hole.

Let’s keep in mind that there are a lot of folk out there who don’t have the benefits that come with a single figure game.

Cheers - Lyne

[Bill Brightly]

Lyne,

I didnt say that I am a fan of this tree, but I think it as an example of what Phil was looking for.

Very observant of you to notice the red tee marker! The photo is two years old and I am happy to report that this year a new red tee was added far to the left and halfway down the hill.

Now keep in mind that I have NEVER seen a woman hit a ball over the tree. I've seen many play left and many others go UNDER it...but never over it.

The new tee eliminates the tree as a hazard, makes the green reachable in two for many women, and brings the two left fairway bunkers into play. I think it is a great hole for the women now.

Wanna guess what the reaction was from the better women players in my club?

 

[Lyne Morrison]

Bill - I think I know the answer to that one     hopefully the right guidance and education can assist ...

Good to hear things have been fixed up.

Cheers

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()