[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

I guess that depends mostly upon whether the greens are changed, no? 

Certainly a change in the greens represents a major alteration.

I think WF is substantially the same because the greens are the same.

Other than # 10 I don't think there have been many substantive changes to the greens.

If some fw bunkers are moved out in connection with moving tees back to bring them into championship play, is that a bad thing? 

I think it is.
Any change specifically targeted for 110 guys who play the golf course 2 days out of every 10 to 13 years and 40 guys who play it 4 days out of every 10 to 13 years doesn't strike me as a well thought out change.

Moving fairway bunkers to accomodate this handful seems disproportionate in terms of the amount of membership play.
Now, if you added fairway bunkers, I might be more favorably disposed. 

Again, value judgement - putting bunkers where they were vs where they were intended to affect play.

For whom, and for how often ?   ?   ?

[Ian Larson]

Pat

What exactly did they do to #10? I was there four years ago just after they finished it, walked it and took notes for our extensions at Riviera. But I honestly can only remember it being an extension in the back and to the right-ish. I don't remember any disturbed sod going into the internal contours.

[TEPaul]

God Bless you Ian Larson for your last post and your common sense on your last post. I wish more on here would do as you did and I wish more would have done it a long, long time ago!

[Tom MacWood]

Tom,
 
If Mr. Young and The Tillinghast Associations knowledge of Tilly and his architecture could never match yours. Wouldn't you think it would be imperative for you to start your own Tilly organization to uphold Tillys true legacy which you are so passionate about? I would think it is a crime and a shame for his legacy to be so tarnished by such a faction. Or maybe you could be a smidge less arguementative and just answer questions that are asked of you so that the thread can make the turn from arguing to educational. Mr Young, IMHO, has been very forthright with his questions and answers. You have come across almost defiant. As neutral observer and someone who loves to have this opportunity to read a frank discussion on Tilly to learn, I'd rather listen and learn from Mr. Young. Your defiancy makes me question your motives and credibility on the subject.

Ian
Have you read 'Tillinghast: A Creator of Golf Courses'? The Tilllinghast Association has done and continues to do an excellent job of presenting Tilly's articles, letters and such in their books and on their website (I'm sure Phiul has contributed to this). They are a tremendous resource.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian,

# 10 isn't the original green.

It was substantially altered years ago.

It used to be much steeper.
However, increasing green speeds made it almost unputtable and unrecoverable.

While the steeper slope accepted tee shots more readily, putting and recovering was becoming very difficult.

The current green doesn't accept shots quite so well with the same club, but, with high tech the incoming trajectory is becoming steeper and steeper with shorter clubs.  And, it putts to more acceptable standards.

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