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Matt Kardash

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NGLA ranking in early 70s
« on: April 15, 2002, 09:15:10 PM »
ok, so i was going through this old golf book i have called "great golf courses of the world" which came out in 1974 i do believe. In the book there is a list of the top 100 american courses(i suppose the list was from 1972 ot 1973). I couldn't help but notice that the NGLA was not on the list anywhere. I was shocked to say the least. Considering that i'm only 20 years old and that i don't know everything, could someone explain to me why the course is absent from the list? is there some kind of fun reason like the course was overtaken by a gang of renegade cows out to protest meat eating?..hehe ???.. or perhaps the book just forgot to write it in?

ok nuff said
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Gary Smith (Guest)

Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2002, 09:27:50 PM »
When the ratings game started way back then, a lot more emphasis was placed on the toughness of a course as a sign of greatness. (am not saying NGLA cannot be tough!)

That would be my guess as to one of the factors.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2002, 09:43:05 PM »
In support of Gary Smith's theory I would point out that Golf Digest's 1974 list puts Firestone well ahead of Cypress Point.

You won't find many people today with such a view.

Also, noteworthy in its absence is Crystal Downs.  Perhaps both are examples of low key clubs that preferred to stay away from the limelight.

My understanding is that Ben Crenshaw played a major role in bringing recognition to Crystal Downs (perhaps Tom Doak as well).  I'm not aware of a single figure who focused attention on NGLA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Give Karl his due
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2002, 06:01:48 AM »
When did Karl Olson get there? I know its been awhile but it hasn't been 30 years has it?

My point is that NGLA wasn't near the course that it is today. Sure, it still should have been acknowledged but would have looked a lot more like ANGC 2002  ;) back then - much narrower fairways, trees, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: Give Karl his due
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2002, 06:44:49 AM »

Quote

My point is that NGLA wasn't near the course that it is today.


1974  NGLA was unknown just as Valley Club of Montecito (The club that can really thank Crenshaw for its notariety more than any other) and Crystal Downs (Doak).  I Was just discussing this with a long time member of NGLA yesterday. The maintenance meld, if you will now, even at its best is not in the same league as it once was.  This is all a stepwise process and there is still more to go with the national.  The best is yet to come if Karl is allowed to progress.  

Will the membership tolerate ideal conditions as envisioned by CBMac?  That is the only limiting factor.  NGLA green and soft, narrow and treed truly is a thought to make one run screaming from the room.

As for earlier ranking of NGLA, the golf world today has still not completely come around to the greatness of NGLA and its features.  Ignorance of one kind or another is the reason for its early '70's absence from a list.  RTJ Sr., had it profiled very well in his piece in The Complete Golfer edited by Wind,  in 1954.  Recognition occurs is a stepwise fashion also.  I know of people on rating panels today who don't get National at all.  (That doesn't extrapolate into everything done by the evangilists being worthy of rating on one hand, but the exceptional nature of NGLA is there for anyone who knows to see.)  There is so much that it smacks you in the face.

And Karl really has to be thanked for getting the National back on track.  GB will hopefully comment a timetable with recent specifics as I have only been going out there about 12 years now.

NGLA not ranked in 1974?  Did the authors even know of it.


  Who were the authors/editors, username?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2002, 11:03:49 AM »
By William H. Davis and the Editors of Golf Digest
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

K.Hegland

Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2002, 04:40:35 PM »
Karl Olsen gave a presentation to my fellow classmates and I at Michigan State last year, about all the changes and work he undertook at NGLA, I must say it was one of the best I had ever seen and got me interested in golf architecture.  He's a great superintendent as well as a teacher, MSU sends him interns every year.  I'm a little more familiar with Crystal Downs though, I believe is wasn't until the late 80's to early 90's that "the Downs" was brought to the light of the golf world, I'm sure Doak had a huge part in that.  In fact CD uncovered a rare home video of the course in its early years that helped them "restore" CD to where it is now, a masterpiece, none of that can be said without giving credit to Mike Morris, CD's version of Karl Olsen.  Mike actually gave a presentation on some of his recent bunker restoration (circa 97-98), and anyone can view it on the USGA's web page, uder the green section, via case studies, its a great presentation, I encourage everyone to look through it!!!  I also know Crenshaw is a huge fan of the course, but who isn't I guess, I one of the biggest fans of the place
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2002, 07:54:02 PM »
Redanman, what was the story about Valley Club and Crenshaw?  Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Charles_P.

Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2002, 10:40:00 AM »
Ran-  Karl became Superintendent in 1987.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2002, 01:23:25 PM »
Again, as usual, I have a little different take on these rating questions. It had nothing really to do with NGLA and everything to do with the ratings--they just weren't very good! Maybe they're better now but....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Sebonac (Guest)

Re: NGLA ranking in early 70s
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2002, 11:49:17 AM »
Karl was the primary person responsible for rehabilitating Shinnecock for the '86 open....He came to The National following his success next door....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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