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Neil_Crafter

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A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« on: November 13, 2008, 01:42:59 AM »
Reading a copy of the Cavendish GC history book that has just arrived, I am pleased to be able to report that Mackenzie was also engaged at the same time as Cavendish to design a public putting green in the Pavilion Gardens in Buxton, Derbyshire. This was news to me as I had never read of this before and had not known that he designed a public putting course anywhere, although they were quite popular across the UK around this time.

Mackenzie was apparently engaged by the local Buxton Council, prepared his plans, submitted an invoice for 81 pounds and the putting green/putting course was built and opened in 1924. Although I have no proof, I would suspect that  his brother Charles Mackenzie built the green while his team were engaged building the nearby Cavendish course for the Duke of Devonshire.

The Board collection at the local history museum fortunately includes a ca1930 photograph of the putting green, which gives quite a good idea of the undulations Mackenzie incorporated in it. I wonder how inspired Mackenzie would have been by the Himalayas at St Andrews, which he no doubt knew well as an R&A member?

The putting green was abandoned in the 1950's although it is said that vestiges of the green can still be seen in the gardens today. I will be asking my contact at Cavendish to see if he can enquire with the council archives to see if any records of its design and construction survive. I will report back as more information comes to hand.
cheers Neil

the green obviously extends out to the right of the image given the direction the women appear to be putting. A hole is in the foreground suggesting the putting course extended quite some distance.



Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 04:44:33 AM »
Neil, Gosh you are a sleuth! I'll potter over to Buxton - it's only a few miles away - and see if I can see its vestiges.

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 05:00:13 AM »
A sleuth! I always wanted to be one of those.

Thought this might pique your interest Mark, hopefully from the 1930's photo and the position of the lake you should be able to pinpoint its position. I suspect it was just abandoned as far as its maintenance so good chance it is still turfed and the contours intact. Hopefully they didn't plant trees all over it but that would not surprise me in the least. Now that you have mastered photo posting I expect some photos post haste!


Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 05:16:25 AM »
You won't get any today, Neil, the weather's filthy.

Tom Naccarato

Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 08:36:48 AM »
Neil, Your a regular Sherlock Holmes!

Great stuff!

Looking at Google and Windows Live (which doesn't have any Birds Eye images) But do you have a bigger image of this photo? (which to make out some features)

Rich Goodale

Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 08:42:53 AM »
Tom(my)

Here's an example of "digital" enchancnement 1950's style.....

http://www.miniaturegolfer.com/Photos/Postcards/buxtongardens.jpg

Tom Naccarato

Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 08:58:26 AM »
Rcih,
Great stuff!

Now the only thing we need is to get the guys who did your books to do there thing!

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 02:09:25 AM »
Tommy
No, I don't have a higher res image of that photo at the moment, hope to get one soon. In the meantime you'll have to make do with it and the colorised version that Rich found.

I do now have a 1999 photo from my Cavendish contact of how the green looked then, taken from pretty much the same spot. Hopefully this might help you Mark for when the weather improves.

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 02:10:57 AM »
it would help if I attached the photo...............



Tom Naccarato

Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 09:02:39 AM »
Nail, amazing how close the later photo is to the original

Bill_McBride

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 04:01:05 PM »
Another example of the need for chain saws worldwide!

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 02:50:15 AM »
Tommy
Yes, looks like its taken from very close to the same viewpoint, not that much change considering the two pictures are 60+ years apart.

Bill
Would be nice to cut back a few trees and restore it as the world's only Mackenzie putting course. Have to be worth a fiver a go, don't you think!

Bill_McBride

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 09:41:47 AM »
Tommy
Yes, looks like its taken from very close to the same viewpoint, not that much change considering the two pictures are 60+ years apart.

Bill
Would be nice to cut back a few trees and restore it as the world's only Mackenzie putting course. Have to be worth a fiver a go, don't you think!

Dollars or quid?  ;D

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 04:52:47 PM »
quids of course!

Marty Bonnar

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 05:40:05 PM »
Brilliant thread, fellow Mackphile!

Small point of order.

Quid, unlike pound or dollar but like ehm, sheep, is both singular and plural.
Thus:
"I have a quid"
and
"I have ten quid"
(Although the latter is seldom true as Nancy has most of my quids spent!! ;D)

And while I'm at it for our American brethren, £'s (cash) are NOT Lb's (weight).

All in the spirit of enlightened elucidation, boys.

best,
FBD.

Oh and PS "THAN" IS NEVER "THEN"! (You know who you are!)
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2008, 05:58:11 PM »
Brilliant thread, fellow Mackphile!

Small point of order.

Quid, unlike pound or dollar but like ehm, sheep, is both singular and plural.
Thus:
"I have a quid"
and
"I have ten quid"
(Although the latter is seldom true as Nancy has most of my quids spent!! ;D)

And while I'm at it for our American brethren, £'s (cash) are NOT Lb's (weight).

All in the spirit of enlightened elucidation, boys.

best,
FBD.

Oh and PS "THAN" IS NEVER "THEN"! (You know who you are!)

I do understand the diff, nephew, as I have way too many pounds but not enough quid.  ;D  And less than I had, no thanks to the crisis du jour.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2008, 06:10:30 PM »
Unka Beel,
you had the distinction down perfectly in your previous post. "dollars or quid" - you have been in the Dunvegan often enough to know the difference!!! ;)

I do hope that Mark R can take some pics over in Buxton soon. I'd love to see the current state of the green.

It does remind me somewhat of the Himalayas. The timeframe would certainly fit. I can't help but wonder if MacK had been so enamoured of the ladies putting green during his time in St A that he simply couldn't help himself...?

FBD.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 06:12:44 PM by M Glynn Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2008, 06:19:11 PM »
FBD
Thankyou for your kind words. We aim to please!

Appreciate your comment about there being no plural form of "quid". How about the expressions "quids in" and "wouldn't be dead for quids" ? Here in Australia we used "quid" like you to describe a pound before 1966 when decimal currency came in. So I can remember it, being of a certain age!

yes, I wondered about the influence the Himalayas had on his greens fullstop. And the chance to build a public putting green would have been very appealing. There were many of these all over the UK in the first part/middle of last century and wonder if Mackenzie did any others?

Hope the clouds lift over Buxton soon!

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 12:18:31 PM »
I thought of going this morning. It was overcast and gloomy. With my wife, I took the bottles (rather too many - mostly tomatao ketchup and peanut beutter, you understand) and tin cans to the recycling site. The rain stopped, the skies cleared, and I didn't have my camera with me. Sod it! Wife is free Wednesday morning and sympathetic to the idea. Hold your breath....

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 03:08:15 PM »
Mark
Sounds like you have a wife-approved window of opportunity - too good to pass up!
I wish you luck in the quest.........

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 04:43:25 PM »
It's only 45 minutes away - I'll go some time next week if the weather allows.  Wife is super supportive. I'm SO lucky.

Tom Naccarato

Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 05:35:57 PM »
Mark,
While your at it, make a pass by Northwood and get me some images of Death or Glory. ;) (I've been asking a friend to do that for years to no avail!)

Neil_Crafter

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2008, 12:16:19 AM »
and while you're at it, can you make me a sandwich?  ;D

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: A Mackenzie Putting Course in Buxton UK
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 10:41:52 AM »
Tom, I think Paul Turner did something about Northwood on GCA some time ago. I know he did the Rickmanworth municipal course which is just about next door (and literally next door to Moor Park.)