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Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lots of good stuff in this review of the still thriving course Whitemarsh Valley.  Curiously, the picture of the 9th green has a sign behind it indicating the hole number.  I thought only Cobb's Creek had this feature!

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 11:11:19 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Joe,

It doesn't really state that George Thomas was the original architect, does it?   However, it also makes clear that Donald Ross was there prior to 1925 (I'm not sure we ever knew that date prior) and seems responsible for today's 7th and 8th holes, and possibly some other toughening.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
This is the earliest info I currently have on Whitemarsh, from the April 30, 1908 edition of the Inky:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Joe,

Hmmm...wonder who "McDonald and James Bray" were?   :o

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think McDonald went by the first name of 'Old'.  he also lived on a big old farm.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 12:06:03 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Very interesting findings, Joe. It appears to me, without any other info, that McDonald gave his "blessing" to the course.


So is there a date established of when exactly Ross was there?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mike_Cirba

Any chance Bray was actually James Braid?

Was he in this country around 1907-08?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Any chance Bray was actually James Braid?

Was he in this country around 1907-08?


Doubtful, Mike. Braid was deathly afraid of traveling on the sea.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mike_Cirba

Hmmm....then who the heck was golf expert James Bray?   :-\
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:09:14 PM by MikeCirba »

Mike_Cirba

Any chance Bray was actually James Braid?

Was he in this country around 1907-08?


Doubtful, Mike. Braid was deathly afraid of traveling on the sea.

David,

Perhaps he flew?  ;) 

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here are two articles on how the Public Ledger introduced Whitemarsh Valley in 1908, the first blurb from May 3, the second more detailed article on the course from May 4.  No mention of the architect(s) as far as I can tell.





@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

If anyone on here is wondering who designed the original Whitemarsh Valley course in 1908 I suggest they simply refer to George Thomas' book "Golf Architecture in America." In the front of that book when he gives a rundown of his life and times with golf couse architecture and those who he worked with and influenced him and he gives this brief description of Whitemarsh Valley:

"I recall fine, old Sam Heebner, of Philadelphia, formerly Honorary Treasurer of the USGA, with whom I built Whitemarsh in Pennsylvania in 1908-----"

If anyone is now going to claim that Macdonald essentially designed the course because he came down and looked at it and pronounced it good, or that Thomas' participation in the design must be exaggerated or glorified somehow because some newspaper articles don't describe Thomas's participation well enough, well, then, I just completely give up on the analyses that emanate out of this website. That was precisely how those ridiculous Merion threads both began and carried on. One even constantly accused this region of carrying on this kind of glorification of local architects with what he coigned as the "Philadephia Syndrome."  ;)

Who was James Bray? You've got me; never heard that name but it wouldn't surprise me if the reporter probably was thinking of James Braid and just misspelled his name. It's interesting he didn't seem to know Macdonald's first name.  ;) However, it would not surprise me if some ambitious golf architecture analysts from other states even claim that James Bray was the third best recognized architect of the time right behind Macdonald and H.H. Barker!  ;)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 01:44:31 PM by TEPaul »

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
I noticed Whitemarsh Valley was being discussed on another thread and I decided to crack open the Labbance/White 100th birthday book on the club.  In it they mention the original course was described in a June 25, 1908 article of the Ambler Gazette.  I provided Patrick White (and Anthony Pioppi) many early articles on Whitemarsh for the book, some of which are reproduced in the margins.  But this Ambler Gazette article is not reproduced (perhaps they had a aged copy or just a transcribed version).

I had never even heard of the Ambler Gazette, but I did some poking around found a source for that article.  Here is it is below:



That paper also included an article from the opening of the club in May of the same year:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
I do remember reading an article about a Travis' win at Pinehurst in 1911 that said The Old Man's score was the best since James Braid's previous 67.

That makes it possible for him to be the James Bray mentioned in the article.

It might also be James Barnes, who was the Pro at Whitemarsh, but I think he was a teenager at the time of the article.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1/24/25 review of W'marsh Valley; UPDATED with 1908 course description
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 06:47:33 AM »
James Braid never travelled to N. America. There was prominent real estate agency in Philadelphia called Bray & MacGeorge but I'm not sure why they would be considered golf experts.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1/24/25 review of W'marsh Valley; UPDATED with 1908 course description
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 09:26:16 AM »
Was TheOuting Magazine incorrect when it published this tidbit in 1911?

"The seventh annual holiday week golf tournament began at Pinehurst, N. C., December 29th. Walter J. Travis won the qualification trophy with a score of 69. This is the best round ever made on the course with the exception of the 67 made by James Braid, the English professional. Travis's score for the thirty-six holes played during the day was 142."
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
This December 18, 1919 article from the Evening Ledger details upcoming changes at Whitemarsh.  I believe these were changes planned by Ross.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

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