Anyone have opinions on the November issue of Golf World?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

They claim to have the definitive ranking list of the British Isles top 100 courses.  Also, there is a Q & A with Robert von Hagge.  He had some interesting things to say about his relationship with Dick Wilson.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Robert

I don't know what the tie up is between the US & UK versions of Golf World but the UK November edition had its latest Top 100 UK & Ireland rankings.  I assume this is the same list which has now been published in the States? There was a thread about the rankings a few weeks ago when the magazine first hit the UK news stands.

The UK Golf World rankings are considered to be the primary course rankings over here, partly due to the fact that most of the raters work in the golf industry. 

[Mark Pearce]

Though how definitive a list can be which places Turnberry above TOC and Muirfield is a question worth asking.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Mark
I didn't say they were definitive, just better than the opposition 

I think the only other UK magazine which does a ranking is Golf Monthly.  Their last rankings showed that there were 50 courses better than Royal Dornoch and 105 better than Cruden Bay!  Incidentally they also had Turnberry at Number 1.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Golf World rankings are undoubtedly the pick of the bunch... I think that there are approximately 60 or 70 people on the main panel with usually about 7 or 8 of those being golf course architects...

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The shocker for me is the low rankings of Rye, Cruden Bay, St. George's Hill, Deal, and the Island. I do not see Doonbeg being better.

[Sean_A]

The Golf World rankings are fairly standard and that is to be expected.  I believe the best rankings on either side of the pond are

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/

Mind you, they merely take info from other rankings and reorganize it, but the results are imo better. 

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

I picked up a copy of the November issue of Golf World (UK) mag with the Top 100 rankings at the Borders in downtown San Francisco yesterday for $9.95.  Regardless of what one thinks of the order of the rankings, the issue is very well done. It would be hard to argue that a lot of thought and consideration was not put into producing this issue. Besides the rankings and the info on the courses listed, there are a number of interesting anecdotes and comments from participants on the ranking panel. 

To me, it was interesting that several of the Euro Tour players ranked Carnoustie among their top-5 courses in GB&I. It confirms, in my mind at least, that very good players are partial to very challenging courses.       

[Ken Moum]

One thing American GCA buffs can't seem to get over is that the Scots in general don't appear to have a particularly high opinion of Cruden Bay.

I was told by someone who grew up in the area that the locals think Fraserburgh and Peterhead are both better courses.

When I asked why, he said they think Cruden has too many odd holes, which is one of the things that Americans love about it.

If that's true, and I believe it is, then it's no surprise that it shows up well down the list.

I loved Cruden Bay, but now I want to see the other two as well

http://www.peterheadgolfclub.co.uk/course.htm

http://www.fraserburghgolfclub.org/course/corbiehill.html

Ken

[David_Tepper]

kmourn -

I have heard good things about Peterhead as well.

DT

[Brian_Ewen]

Ken
Nobody I know likes Cruden Bay , including all my friends , because of their distaste of the 14 to 17 stretch of quirk .

I am always having to defend the place 

[Brian_Ewen]

""Some of the men who judge Golf Worlds Top 100""

(and their favourite course )

Donald Steel - Royal Dornoch
Ronan Rafferty - The Addington
Ewen Murray - Carnoustie
Peter McEvoy - Little Aston
David McLay Kidd - North Berwick
Bruce Critchley - Rye
Jamie Spence - Royal Cinque Ports
David Cannon - West Sussex
Nick Faldo - Muirfield

[Adrian_Stiff]

Good or bad golf courses are always going to be subjective, I can see people loving Painswick I can see how people hate it. There are 43 courses in the county of Gloucestershire but it would make very few top 20s if you canvassed golfers and perhaps even fewer if you asked pro's or the better players.
To some degree, why some courses seem to be ranked lower is because many the raters (good golfers) dont see many of the older courses as enough of a challenge.
If you are talking top 100 golf courses then you are talking about elite golf courses, everyone is going to look at certain positions and be amazed, Carnoustie would not be in my top 5, I would probably have TOC at 1, but many people play that and are dissapointed and many think its not the best course in Fife.

[Matthew Schulte]

Can someone provide a link to their list?

[David_Tepper]

Matthew -

There was a thread here about a month ago on this same topic that listed the rankings:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36559.0.html

DT

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Golf World rankings are fairly standard and that is to be expected.  I believe the best rankings on either side of the pond are

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/

Mind you, they merely take info from other rankings and reorganize it, but the results are imo better. 

Ciao

Sean, I like that website a lot but I think some of their rankings are way out precisely because they take the less informed rankings in to the equation... Low rankings for Woking and County Louth always amaze me as do some high ones... The fault is even more obvious when looking at countries other than the UK, Ireland or the US...

David, Peterhead is perhaps what you meant 

I like both Peterhead and Fraserburgh, though neither nearly as much as Cruden Bay in my hazy memory... Both are certainly worth a play when in the area though...

[TEPaul]

Brian Ewen:

Thank you for your post #11 with a list of the favorite courses of a number of people who select those rankings. That list is potentially more interesting to me than the ranking itself. Of course it would be so much more edifying if the magazine also included why those people feel those particular courses are their favorites.

[Sean_A]

The Golf World rankings are fairly standard and that is to be expected.  I believe the best rankings on either side of the pond are

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/

Mind you, they merely take info from other rankings and reorganize it, but the results are imo better. 

Ciao

Sean, I like that website a lot but I think some of their rankings are way out precisely because they take the less informed rankings in to the equation... Low rankings for Woking and County Louth always amaze me as do some high ones... The fault is even more obvious when looking at countries other than the UK, Ireland or the US...

David, Peterhead is perhaps what you meant 

I like both Peterhead and Fraserburgh, though neither nearly as much as Cruden Bay in my hazy memory... Both are certainly worth a play when in the area though...

Ally

Sure, many of the courses are out of whack imo, but that is the case with all rankings.  I can't see how a place like Hillside is always thought so highly of and yet Beau Desert, Wallasey and others never get a mention.  I would place Woking up there with the best of the inland courses, but I can understand it not getting that sort of praise across the board.  There ain't a lot of eye candy.

It seems we often use Cruden Bay as a marker for these rankings.  I like the course, but it isn't a world beater for me.  I always thought Aberdeen was worth a detour to see and Cruden Bay one of those if in the vicinity then have a go courses, but certainly top 100 GB&I material.  It is obvious that most Yanks idolize the place and my opinion is a minority one.  There is a lot to like about both courses, but more to dislike about Cruden Bay.     

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Golf World rankings are fairly standard and that is to be expected.  I believe the best rankings on either side of the pond are

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/

Mind you, they merely take info from other rankings and reorganize it, but the results are imo better. 

Ciao

Sean, I like that website a lot but I think some of their rankings are way out precisely because they take the less informed rankings in to the equation... Low rankings for Woking and County Louth always amaze me as do some high ones... The fault is even more obvious when looking at countries other than the UK, Ireland or the US...

David, Peterhead is perhaps what you meant 

I like both Peterhead and Fraserburgh, though neither nearly as much as Cruden Bay in my hazy memory... Both are certainly worth a play when in the area though...

Ally

Sure, many of the courses are out of whack imo, but that is the case with all rankings.  I can't see how a place like Hillside is always thought so highly of and yet Beau Desert, Wallasey and others never get a mention.  I would place Woking up there with the best of the inland courses, but I can understand it not getting that sort of praise across the board.  There ain't a lot of eye candy.

It seems we often use Cruden Bay as a marker for these rankings.  I like the course, but it isn't a world beater for me.  I always thought Aberdeen was worth a detour to see and Cruden Bay one of those if in the vicinity then have a go courses, but certainly top 100 GB&I material.  It is obvious that most Yanks idolize the place and my opinion is a minority one.  There is a lot to like about both courses, but more to dislike about Cruden Bay.     

Ciao

Wallasey... now that's interesting... A course I knew nothing about until last night reading Darwin's Golf Courses of the British Isles again... Came in and googled it this morning...

[Andrew Mitchell]

Ally

We played Wallasey as part of Buda 2006.  Very under-rated it stood up well to the comparison with Hoylake.  Ran has a write up in Courses by Country.  How it fails to even get a mention in the courses listed as 101 - 200 is beyond me.

[Paul Nash]

I too prefer top 100 website as it takes all of the other rankings as well as their own into the mix. There are also usually some good comments that often vary and seem honest, although there are a few stupid ratings that I think they should disregard - Woodhall Spa was called long and flat and given it a 3-ball average rating!!