[David_Elvins]

True or false?

Every hole between 200 yards and 650 yards will play as a par 4 (edit: 2 shot hole) for someone and should be designed as such.

[Ken Moum]

True or false?

Every hole between 200 yards and 650 yards will play as a par 4 for someone and should be designed as such.

True....sort of.

Because I play a lot of golf with the women in my family, and because often play on Sat. morning I with a bunch of guys ranging in age from ~35 to ~75, with handicaps from <10 to >25, I feel as if I have an unusual perspective. I also play now and then with the guys at the other end, who hit it 300+ yards off the tee.

The fact is that most golf courses are not a lot of fun for a wide spectrum of golfers.

My mother (age 85) was an avid golfer until the couple of years. Her sister (age 79) is still playing several times a week in Fla., carrying a 22 index. A 200-yard hole is driver, hybrid for my aunt, unless she kills one off the tee.

I play several times a week with my wife, a 13 handicapper who hits it about 160 +/- off the tee.

At the other extreme, I have a friend who was complaining last week about having to lay up on a 430-yard par four.

I don't like the hole either, because it plays into the wind and I sometimes can hit a good drive and then can't get my second over the ravine that starts at about 350---- Then I found out he was talking about having to layup off the tee!!!

While there's almost no possibility that a course will fun and challenging for all of them, I get discouraged sometimes at how little thought apparently goes into things like the placement of forward tees relative to hazards, doglegs, etc.

I an ideal world, there'd be a way for everyone to play every whole without facing multiple layups and/or losing half their golf balls.

K

[TEPaul]

"True or false?
Every hole between 200 yards and 650 yards will play as a par 4 for someone and should be designed as such."


I realize it may be a lot to ask of the contributors to this website but this basic idea is why George Thomas came up with his unique proposal based around requiring half strokes for putts. His proposal is interesting and in theory makes a lot of sense in this vein-----even though apparently too many just assumed that Thomas must not have liked putting much, and apparently didn't take his proposal seriously for that reason alone.

Not only did he see it as a way to sort of smooth out the differences in distance capablilities amongst golfers of all levels but most interesting of all he claimed that it would make for far less expensive architecture basically since architects would not really need to do as many bunkers for the stronger level of players, particularly around green ends.

[Scott Stearns]

False-

par is a meaningless number to better players--they all know what each other are going to make/should make on any hole.  (e.g. the 15th at Augusta)

Par is meaningful to ALL golfers in the sense that everybody likes to make a "birdie" though, or "par" if we're a 14+

so designate par and design the hole based on a 240 yard drive.  move the back tee around to make the place tougher for the good player.

The rules committee for the state open will feel free to change par, just like the USGA, if they ever decide to use your course and they think it warranted, so dont worry abt the better player.  serve the avg. member.

these rules do not apply to courses built for tour pros, like the TPC, or mens clubs like Champions which cater to better players and are unapologetic about setting thigns up for the eliete (sp).  Interestingly, though, i think lesser players can still have fun on the TPC, (except for #17) so i think great arch can make even a tour course fun for all skill sets.

[David_Elvins]

Sorry Scott, I should have been clearer.  When I said par 4 I meant in terms of being a 2 shot hole. 

A guy who hits the ball 180, will face a 240 yard par 3 in a similar manner to a guy who hits it 250 faces a 330 yard hole, or a guy who hts it 350 faces a 440 yard hole. 

So should holes of all these lengths, for example, be designed with similar considerations for strategy?

[Phil_the_Author]

No.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Paul:  That's twice you've suggested going to the half-stroke for putting.  Are you having trouble with the yips? 

David E:  I believe that MOST holes should be designed so that any player might be able to hit a 4-wood onto the green, whether it's from 100 yards away or from 325.  But, that's MOST holes, not ALL.  There's nothing wrong with having a couple of holes per round where the player has to hit a good, stopping shot onto the green with no real way around it.

Funny how some good players will agree with this theory when we're talking about medium to long par-4's which they can reach easily, but then when you're talking about a par-5 which won't hold their second shots, they get all democratic about how everybody should be able to hold the green if they hit their two best shots.

[henrye]

True or false?

Every hole between 200 yards and 650 yards will play as a par 4 (edit: 2 shot hole) for someone and should be designed as such.

At my home club, we've got 2 par 3's over 200 and they were both designed and play as par 3's.  I guess the answer is False.

What's the matter with par 5's?

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