What were they thinking II - What to do if the kick plate doesn't kick?

[Bryan Izatt]

It's been a rainy summer here.  Courses are playing soft.  The hole below is a bear of a par 3 where the only logical shot is a low running (right-handed) draw off a kick plate to the front right of the green.  Unfortunately balls aren't kicking off the kick plate.  How to play the hole if you don't have the Tigeresque high 240 yard five iron that lands like a butterfly?   My best guess is as a layup, a chip and hopefully one putt.

The hole is 269 yards from the tips, 239 from the tees I play.  It drops about 30 feet tee to green which inhibits the kick plate option.  The green is boomerang shaped and very narrow, 10 to 15 paces across.   There are sharp drop offs of 10 to 30 feet on left, right and back sides.  Missing left or right pin high is death.  The bunkers are 6 to 8 feet below the green.  There is really no shot to a back pin position (there's really no left or right back there).  Thankfully, it's rarely into the wind.  Cross wind - good luck!

Maybe it's just a really short, short par 4 in disguise.   

It is a hoot to play, seeing what kind of shot you can manufacture to find the green, as long you're not too hung up on scoring. 

What were they thinking?

[Jim Nugent]

Bryan, what do you think of it as a 270 yard par 4?

Also, what is the rest of the course like? 

[Bill Brightly]

What course is that? The green complex looks very much like the par three 2nd at Somerset Hills, but the SH hole is not that long.

[Jerry Kluger]

it is also very similar to a hole at C&C's Hidden Creek in New Jersey - very redan like - unfortunately that much of a drop sort of takes away from a redan - I wonder about that bunker short on the right, especially at that length where the play is to hit it short and kick it on.  I do like the hole and the bunkering left is very interesting - can a ball stay up in one of those fingers? 

[Bill Brightly]

Here's a picture of Somerset Hills 2nd. Wouldn't you say the green complex above was inspired by this hole built by Tillinghast?

[Anthony Fowler]

This looks like a very fun hole.  I'm not sure why you're concerned about the kick plate.  Just because it's called a par 3 doesn't mean you should be able to easy get it close to any hole location.  If you can't hit the tiger shot, then you'll have to work it right to left, or take you chances with a chip or long putt.  It's not the architect's job to build the green such  that the ball can be easily fed to every hole location.  It's your job to figure out how to get the ball in the hole in the fewest number of strokes.  Maybe it would be best for your to think of it as an easy par 4 so you don't get hung up on getting the ball close to the hole off the tee. 

I'll even add that it may be a better hole with the kick plate not kicking.  If it did, there would be one dominant strategy for the hole.  If it doesn't, there are a multitude of shots that one might try, which makes it more interesting IMO.

[Bruce Leland]

I'm guessing Bond Head North??

[Tom_Doak]

Bryan:

Your critique is fair, I guess ... as long as you post a similar question when you have a dry summer and all of the elevated, bunkered greens are impossible to hold.

[Bryan Izatt]

Yes, it's the 11th hole at Bond Head North Course designed by Jason Straka of Hurdzan Fry.

Anthony,

I'm concerned with the kick plate because the architect clearly intended a low running draw to be the intended shot requirement for the hole.  At 239 or 269 yards any aerial shot to the narrow sliver of green is somewhere between unlikely to damn near impossible for anybody.  I don't think that the hole feeds any shot to any hole location.  The slope of all parts of the green are severe too.  My strategy is to try to play the running draw off the back of the short right bunker, and in the worst case leave it short and right and try to get up and down.  Is it possible in your opinion for a hole to be too severe?

There are other shots that you could try, but unless you are really long, none of them are really likely to succeed.  A 240 to 270 yard cut driver to a 15 yard deep target is a fool's shot for most of us.  What other shots do you think you could manufacture here?

Jerry,

I think the bunker short right is intended as a target for running a shot in.  The back of it provides some additional kick.  

Yes, the ball will stay up in the fingers of the bunkers.  The sand is fairly coarse.

Jim,

As a 270 yard par 4, it might work.  If it was a short 4 though they'd need to have designed another longer than 270 tee and done away with the most forward 150 yard tee.  A 182 yard short par 4 might even be entertaining for my short hitting wife.  What do you think of it as a 223 short 4 from the white tees?

The rest of the course is equally severe.  Lots of dramatic carries, uphill blind shots, severe drop -offs around the greens, deep bunkers, and fast undulating greens.  At 7,085 yards from the tips it's rated 74.8 and sloped at 148.  For me, if you have enough game to survive it, it is a fun ride to play.  But you have to leave your scoring ego at the door.

[Bryan Izatt]

Bryan:

Your critique is fair, I guess ... as long as you post a similar question when you have a dry summer and all of the elevated, bunkered greens are impossible to hold.

The greens are hard enough to hold even in this wet summer.  They are still young enough to be firm, and since most are elevated, they drain well.  Last summer was a drought year and the greens were younger then, but I, at least, was able to hit this green with the running shot.  In either year, pitching it onto the green from either side is extremely difficult because of the firmness of the greens, their elevation, the shallow depth from from either side and the slopes of the green.  A very challenging hole, but maybe a bit over the top, IMHO.  Have you ever designed a hole that ended up over-the-top difficult?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bryan,
Looking at the photos suggests that a shot played to the front portion
of the green would be a good way to play this hole on any day, and under
any conditions. 

[Sean Leary]

We have a very long par three hole at my home course where the ball doesn't kick as much as it used to when it first opened in 2001, especially in the winter here in the Seattle area. That being said, just short is the preferred "miss" so to speak. It is signficantly downhill, but there is more trouble than on this hole.

We used to be able to land it significantly shorter, and have it bounce on, so club selection has changed for sure.

[RSLivingston_III]

Is the picture tilted to the right? All the trees in the background are tilted...

[Paul Nash]

what a fantastically picturesque and interesting looking hole/ course - would me on my must play list from this tempting look. I need a golfing holiday - all this work and miserable weather is depressing - although winning captain's day on Saturday and the resulting hangover on Sunday helped! It was reported that September is close to being the wettest ever in the UK and the record could be broken in the first half of the month!!! I want some sun.

[Anthony Fowler]

Anthony,
Is it possible in your opinion for a hole to be too severe?

Thanks Bryan for a great question which really makes me think.  I think most would quickly answer yes to this question.  I agree that yes, it is possible for a hole to be too severe, but in general people are too quick to label a hole as such.  Also, I would add that too many people think about the par of the hole when they consider whether the hole is too severe.  If a scratch golf has trouble making 3 on a par 3, he says it is too severe, which I think is a very simple-minded and misled way to think about a hole.  The par should not matter at all.

In general, I am looking for good, interesting, stimulating, fun golf holes.  Severity doesn't really factor in except that when a hole does qualify as being too severe it rarely has any of the other qualities I have stated.  For instance, if this green were completely surrounded by water, it would be too severe.  But I don't even need to think of severity, because that hole would just be stupid, uninteresting, and not very stimulating.  On the other hand, with this hole the way it is, it seems challenging, but it also looks interesting and stimulating because the player has multiple options and must figure out the best way to get the ball in the hole.  It also seems like you have plenty of bailout to the right, and the bunkers don't look impossible.  It seems like good shots are rewarded and bad shots are penalized, but not so dramatically that recovery is not possible.  So this may be a hard hole relative to par, but not too severe.

Let me offer a litmus test for whether or not a hole is too severe.  If the par of this hole was changed to a "par 4", would you still say it is too severe?  If the answer is no, then the hole is not too severe.  It may be hard relative to par, but it is not severe IMO.

There are other shots that you could try, but unless you are really long, none of them are really likely to succeed.  A 240 to 270 yard cut driver to a 15 yard deep target is a fool's shot for most of us.  What other shots do you think you could manufacture here?

I guess I would have to play the hole to give a fair answer.  From what I can see, I would probably play a high cut to land on the middle of the green.  If I don't pull it off, I like my chances from the bunker or just over.  I think I'd be giving myself a good chance to make 3 and never make more than 4.  The low hook in there is not a reliable shot for me (or most) and the chip from the bailout area looks just as difficult (not very) as the bunkers, so no reason to lay up over there.

[Bruce Leland]

I played Bond Head North 2 years ago in Hurdzan/Frys WIC tournament.  While this hole presents a challenge  from the tips it does play downhill and a 3 wood was enough club the day I played it.  Hard par / reasonably easy bogey based on its designated par.  I thought there were other holes on the course that were more intimidating off the tee than this one.

I will agree, however, that it is more of an aerial play than a running draw.