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Phil McDade

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Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2008, 12:43:16 AM »

Final comment on today's first round -- the score by Hunter Mahan demonstrated for me at least that he belongs on this year's Ryder Cup team. The man has the total game -- the issue is consistency on the mental side and not shooting one's mouth off prematurely as he did with his earlier Ryder Cup comments.



Matt:

Good observation. Too often in the past, RC captains have gone for the sure and steady guy -- ala Verplank -- and miss out on guys like Mahan who can get gonzo-hot for a round or two. I'd argue the latter player suits the team better, esp. w/ plodders like Furyk and Cink already in the mix. Mahan's someone who can really bring it for the truncated nature that is the Ryder Cup.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2008, 02:49:11 PM »

'Bill, you're forgetting that balls hit left of the green will probably bounce to the right, onto the green."

Maybe, but some will stick in the rough, others will roll across the green. And the ball must fly 290 in the air to get this bounce!

From the back tee they have to fly the equivalent of 320.
The hole is uphill.

However, from the middle or forward tee it's considerably less.

Yesterday, the breeze was in their face.
Today, with still winds, more and more golfers are going for it.


"I disagree again, most missing the green may end up on the steep upslope, and from the steep upslope it's a relatively easy shot for the best golfers in the world."

I disagree. If this was a normal sized green, it would not be a hard shot. But there is no green to work with, the shot must be perfect, and thick rough is one variable that bothers even pros. They have to hit it firm to get through the rough, but if they go long bogey is quite likely, ditto for short.


Bill, these are the greatest players in the world.
A 10-30 yard wedge from an uphill lie is nothing, and, don't forget the green slopes from left to right close to the left side and from back to front, making those short approaches even easier. 

From the bunkers it's also a relatively easy shot.

As I stated, conditions of the day will dictate play and today it seems as if the green light is on.


It is hole #5, not 16 or 17...why risk not having 50-50 birdie opportunity so early in the round?

They're not risking a 50-50 shot at a birdie.
They all pitch/chip the ball exceptionally well, especially from an uphill lie.
Mickelson rimmed out for eagle with his approach.
It's a clear eagle hole the way these guys pitch, chip and play bunker shots.


As an aside, I wonder if the grandstands on the hill will be in play for the REALLY big hookers? Yikes!

If so, it only favors the attempt.

With today's equipment I wonder how many of these fellows "hook" the ball that much ?



Matt_Ward

Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2008, 10:51:22 AM »
Couple of quick points concerning Ridgewood after having attended this years event ...

1). While the course drew strong praise for its set-up and architectural pedigree the size of the crowds was quite small -- the capacity was set for 25,000 but it never approached that number with actual bodies on the course at anytime. In the first two days the bulk of the crowd steered towards the threesome of Lefty, Kenny Perry and Padraig.

2). Ridgewood benefited from the smaller sized crowds since its overall logistics would make it much more difficult to host a major event with the likes of Tiger being on board. No doubt the course is helped by the fact that Bergen County has "blue laws" in effect which effectively closes down all shopping in the Borough of Paramus on Sundays. Still, the sheer density of the area would make matters quite demanding -- keep in mind the course benefited from hosting the event during the last days of August -- prime time for people to go on vacation and therefore not be in town.

3). The set-up by the PGA Tour was exceptional. One of the best I have personally witnessed in over 30 years. Ridgewood allowed for scoring when exceptional play happened (witness Mahan's opening round and Stricker's in the 2nd round) but the course was not going to allow a progression of low scores without the required level of high execution. The rough was fair but not so penal as to only require lob shots out back to the fairway.

4). The course design demonstrates that working the ball off the tee is what is needed in order to place a healthy balance between the need for power and accuracy. Ridgewood's leaderboard featured the likes of Mike Weir and Bubba Watson and a range of different players types in-between. The top tier players were notably present on the leaderboard with the likes of Vijay and Sergio, to name just two.

5). Tillinghast's secret at Ridgewood, like Winged Foot, is making sure you have fairway turning points where shaping tee shots to ideal landing areas is needed. You just can't grip and rip -- and you simply can't shape shots without sufficient distance. More than most other courses -- Ridgewood is a welcome throw-back to shotmaking starting off at the tee.

6). For those who need to know which holes played the toughest the top nine are listed below.
The 5 + Dime hole rated #16. The easiet hole was the 1st.

Toughest ...

#1 12th (converted par-4 usually plays as a par-5 on #2 Center Nine)

#2 8th (par-3) *Very hard for the pros to figure out -- green design was especially tough if yu missed left of hole

#3 11th (par-4)

#4 10th (par-3) *plays as the 6th hole on the East Nine

#5 18th (par-4) *fantastic play by Veej and Serge for bidies as the 1st playoff hole.

#6 9th (par-4) *uphill slight dog-leg plays as the 5th on the East normally.

#7 7th (par-4) *converted from normal par-5 4th hole on Center.

#8 14th (par-4) *generally the 5th hole on the West - tough green proved hard to figure out.

#9 6th (par-4) *plays as the 3rd on the Center Nine and was a tough driving hole throughout the event


Leftovers ...

Hard to figure out why Streelman putted first on #18 since he was inside of Veej. Waiting to have Vejj putt first would have given him the opportunity to know that his putt would be for a tie if Veej did miss.

There was confusion as to who was away then and when the players played the 18th a few minutes later during the 1st playoff hole.

Regarding the ruling on the "gopher" hole at #17 for Sergio. Slugger White was most gracious in giving Sergio relief in that situation. It was a stretch from my vantage point in looking at the area after play has finished. Almost similar to the gracious ruling that Els received from the Masters Will Nicholson a few years ago.

All in all, kudos to Ridgewood for coming out of the shadows -- likely the event may not come back there for a few years -- if at all. The Tour would like to see Liberty National and possibly even Trump National enter the rota of courses. Ridgewood deserves high marks for a grand week blessed with superb weather and a tremendously exciting climax.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2008, 04:34:39 PM »
Matt Ward - Nicely stated.

Saturday was fantastic, even though we didn't have a spurious gopher ruling.

Jason McNamara

Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2008, 05:24:32 PM »
Funny you mention that, Dan.  I thought it was going to be the standard Ballesteros-esque "how far can we stretch the rules," but there actually was some kind of animal hole there.  Anyway, at least it didn't affect the outcome.

Thanks to Pat, Matt, and everyone else for the handy "what to look for" posts.

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2008, 08:32:51 PM »
Matt,

What did you think about the number of guys who used driver on the 5th (nickel and dime)?  Did you see a stat anywhere on what percentage used driver?

I thought that Sunday a higher percentage of the players used driver than the previous days.  Parnevik hit the front of the green and the ball rolled left to right to 2.5 feet of the hole.  He made the eagle putt.  In the same twosome, Phil it to the rough by the right front bunker and got up and down for birdie.



Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2008, 09:02:01 PM »
Many more pros used driver than I expected. THey made a lot of birdies from the right bunker.

But I saw Cabrera hook his in the woods, take a lost ball and make 7 an Saturday...

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2008, 09:46:59 PM »
Bill,

I thought a number of pros would use driver.  You just couldn't miss left.  Angel missed left and missed the large gallery on the left.

I was surprised how many players missed their putts on the low side.  I won't feel so bad next time when I miss.

Is your office on Century Road?

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2008, 06:47:13 AM »
Mike - I was amazed when Garcia hit a 3-wood there on Saturday into a slight wind.  Not suprisingly, he came up short.

I think the best plays were a mid-iron and wedge.

Boy - that is one tiny green!  Somewhat reminiscant of Bandon Trails 14.

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2008, 09:01:24 AM »
Dan,

Five iron and wedge was the safer play.  I probably saw over 50 guys play the hole and only saw two who missed the green with a wedge and they both made bogey.  However, there were only 4 birdies in the first 10 groups of three on Thursday and two of those were from guys who used driver. 

Even though their wedges were often 8-12 feet, they underread the break time and time again.  The guys who used drivers were often able to put their second shots closer to hole (generally) making birdies easier. 

True every once in a while there was an Angel who lost a ball left, Couples hitting the gallery and Phil hitting the ball twice on one swing from the greenside rough. 

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2008, 09:15:04 AM »
Mike,
It was a kick standing up near the green chuckling with a couple of members.  These members couldn't understand why the pros kept misreading the putts, "We all know it breaks more than that".

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2008, 09:49:19 AM »
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,16019.0.html

A discussion about Ridgewood CC from a few years ago.
Some five and dime discussion . . .

-Ted

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Watch This Week at Ridgewood !
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2008, 10:06:44 AM »
Dan, there is apparently more local knowledge on the greens than I thought.  I understand someone asked the head pro how many players asked him for input on the greens.  The answer was the same number of sub par rounds I have - zero.



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