18th holes at Prairie Dunes and Bethpage Black

[Patrick_Mucci]

Some criticized the 18th hole at Bethpage Black, citing amongst other things that the 18th hole in a USOPEN should not be a lay up hole off the tee.

In watching this weeks telecast, I noticed several of the players hitting irons, even 4 irons off the 18th tee.

I was wondering where the flood of criticism regarding that situation/configuration disappeared to.

Or, is Prairie Dunes and its architects exempt from criticism.

If it's okay for the 18th hole to be soft would this bring Baltimore CC back into the mix ?

I also understand that work is being done on the 17th and 18th holes at BCCFF's, does anyone know the scope of the work ?

[brad_miller]

Pat, isn't the 18th green at PD somewhat different than ANY green at Bethpage (black)  They also could move the tee back some, but the fairway seems to be so F&F that driver is only going into the rough unless one challanges the risky right side. How did you play the hole in "88?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brad,

I hit driver off the tee.  At the time, I felt I hit my driver straighter than a steered 3-wood or 2-iron, and would be left with a more benign shot into the green.

While the greens and their relationship to the fairway, elevationwise, may differ, I'm puzzled, what bearing does that have on the club selection off the tee ?

[Joe Hancock]

Pat,

Do you mean for those two courses, or any tee shot in general?

Joe

[corey miller]

Pat- Are you suggesting that this site plays favorites in discussing architects thus favoring Perry Maxwell to the detriment of others such as Joseph Burbeck? If I do remember southern hills was criticised on this site a lot.

We are also talking two different sports here, does the contrast in set-ups really matter?  Out of all the us opens mens and womens Bethpage and Prairie dunes are the two courses i am most familiar with and I am enjoying the womens so much more because the men really are not playing the same Bethpage I have played and the women clearly are and i like that a whole lot better.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe Hancock,

The 18th hole at those two courses,
Bethpage and Prairie Dunes.

Brad,

It's amazing, the very same playability factors exist off the tee, yet one course gets blistered and the other doesn't have one negative comment made about it.

Double standard    

[brad_miller]

Pat, when 18 at PD plays down wind it could probably use some more distance, but don't think there is any, but isn't the the green more challenging than BB? Is PD's 18 up to final hole US Open Men's snuff, probably not, but I don't think they will ever see the course, thankfully!

[Bruceski]

Brad,

Just curious, why don't you want the men to play at Prarie Dunes? Do you think the organizers would set up the course poorly?

I found the Women's U.S. Open to be enjoyable as the women hit the ball in a way that allows the course to play as it should.  I'm also wondering if Johnny Miller is going to take some heat because of his end-of-broadcast comment commending Julie Inkster that went something like "most women at age 42 are in the kitchen cooking".

I sort of agree with Pat Mucci, though. The finishing holes at PD and BB are similar (though the PD green is far deadlier).

[brad_miller]

Bring them on, but only with BC doing the work before. This isn't ment to be ....... More typical PD wind would also be required. FOF... Fear of F.....

[corey miller]

Pat- you may have answered your own question about PD 18.  You could have hit 3-wood or 2-iron but hit driver leaving an easier shot into green.  You had three or more choices and would have had 2nd shot determined by the choice off the tee.  If someone hit a 4-iron they had a lot of options off the tee.

BB 18 certainly did not provide the oppurtunity for multiple club selection because the bunkers were pinched in where they were.

I assume you are getting to anti-rees bias and it may exist but not on hole 18 of bethpage as there was not much room to work with.  I also think he would have been criticised if he had touched the mostly flat greens.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Corey,

I have the same options at Bethpage.