[JESII]

On the "Is this a good hole thread", it has come up about what percentage of people need to think a hole is good before it is so...

Are there any holes that are good for the vast majority?

Of those, how many have a less than stellar green complex?

[Tom Huckaby]

I can't think of a player for whom Cypress Point #16 is not a great golf hole.  Heck even if you can't hit it 50 yards in the air, you could play down the cart path.  It's so beautiful, if it doesn't inspire you in the challenge it ought to inspire you in other ways. 

And it has a pretty bland green.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

To answer the second question first...if a hole is good for you, me and a double-digit handicap senior lady golfer then almost certainly it will have an interesting green.

I nominate the tenth at Deal. Wide open, slight dogleg left, medium-sized green that is quite flat (which is part of the challenge) and as strategic a hole of that length as you could ever want. Short, too.

[JESII]

Huck,

I haven't been there and don't think I'd lay up if I get there, but this is the type of hole I had in mind as a 5%er...I can appreciate the surroundings as well as the next guy (and much moreso than Mucci), but can the setting really make up for a hole that forces the person that can't hit it 100 yards to take?

At some point the golf has to weigh in if we are talking about good golf holes...

[Wayne_Kozun]

I like a challenging short par 4 under 300 yards.  Long hitters can try to drive the green, high handicappers can just lay up and try to hit a wedge close.  If such a hole is done well it gives almost everyone the chance to get a birdie, or at least a par, but double bogey is still very possible if you make a mistake.

[Garland Bayley]

As someone in this group wrote, the tenth at Riviera is the answer to all GCA questions.

[David Stamm]

As someone in this group wrote, the tenth at Riviera is the answer to all GCA questions.

Garland, this is the first hole that came to mind when I read Sully's intro to this topic. It's a great equalizer for all levels of players. The 9th at CPC and the 3rd at Rustic Canyon are other ones that come to mind.

[JR Potts]

The 12th at Shoreacres should be enjoyed by all.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I haven't been there and don't think I'd lay up if I get there, but this is the type of hole I had in mind as a 5%er...I can appreciate the surroundings as well as the next guy (and much moreso than Mucci), but can the setting really make up for a hole that forces the person that can't hit it 100 yards to take?

At some point the golf has to weigh in if we are talking about good golf holes...

Well... my point remains that the player who can't hit the ball 100 yards still CAN play the golf hole... they can go way left.  Add that to the spectacular surroundings and to me this hole fits your definition exactly, particularly because it has a pretty bland green.

On top of this, what percentage of golfers can't hit the ball 100 yards AND play full-sized courses?  Should they really be the determining factor?

BTW I'm pretty sure it was I who said that about 10 Riviera.  But maybe I am having a Goodale moment.

TH

[Philippe Binette]

Royal Melbourne...

the entire course... I just don't see how anybody could go... I hate this hole... I can't play it

[Philippe Binette]

except when they put the greens too fast and players walk off the course... Sandy Lyle I think did that in 1984 or something

[Chris Kane]

Royal Melbourne...

the entire course... I just don't see how anybody could go... I hate this hole... I can't play it

Weaker lady players might take exception to this while trying to finish 7W.

[Jim Nugent]

18 at TOC.  13 at ANGC.   10 at Belfry.  7 at Olympic.  Lots of holes at Ballyneal (I bet). 

[Bill_McBride]

Royal Melbourne...

the entire course... I just don't see how anybody could go... I hate this hole... I can't play it

I will echo and expand on Philippe's nomination of Royal Melbourne by adding that almost any hole designed by Dr Mackenzie is good for everybody.

There is always a strategic option open to a player of any level, always a way around, and the greens are always interesting.  There are few if any penal holes on Mackenzie courses and those kinds of holes are what are usually unplayable for some.

My wife for example has a problem with forced carries.  Never seen one on a Mackenzie course she couldn't handle except maybe #18 at Pasatiempo.   If given the opportunity, she could maneuver her way to a bogey at #16 Cypress Point without much trouble.  #15 might give her more trouble but there is a way around for her.

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