[kconway]

I played the European Club several years ago and I was underwhelmed.  Having heard/read much hype about the European Club I was dissapointed:

  - opening inland holes were unispired  
  - lots of self promotion
  - some silly design...120 yard 12th green
 
What did i miss??

[Mark Smolens]

Played there last year.  Mr. Ruddy may well be an iconic figure in Irish golf, but for me a trip across the pond means an opportunity to play links golf, and the European Club is not a links golf course.  It may be a treeless course located on land next to the sea, but it does not (at least it didn't for us) play like any of the other links courses we played -- County Louth, County Down, Portrush, etc.

[Sean Leary]

I enjoyed it but it was not one of the favorites on our trip.  Some interesting decisions there. The fairway ending on 8 worsened a potentially great hole, and I would replace 2 in the regular rotation with the extra par 3 on the back which looked very cool. Not a big fan of the sleepers either.

The 120 yard green was kinda fun I thought...

[Padraig Dooley]

Here's two old discussions on the European Club


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26436;start=0

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26400;start=msg493469#msg493469

[Ian Andrew]

Played there last year.  Mr. Ruddy may well be an iconic figure in Irish golf, but for me a trip across the pond means an opportunity to play links golf, and the European Club is not a links golf course.  It may be a treeless course located on land next to the sea, but it does not (at least it didn't for us) play like any of the other links courses we played -- County Louth, County Down, Portrush, etc.

Mark,

Your opinion of it not being a links confuses me. While I concede the course - in places - is a little too “modern” in the architectural stylings for my taste - it is a links course by definition by the very land it's played over.

In general,

The course may have a few things that I would prefer to be different: like the width of some holes, the sleepers in the bunkers and the pond on the 18th - but there are still lots of really great holes out there. I had a great time playing there even though it is too tight for my game – but I had the same feelings about Royal Portrush which is also too difficult for my skill level. I enjoyed them both for very different reasons.

[Mike Policano]

Ian,

Interesting comparison to Portrush. I played both Portrush and the European this year. I hit the ball relatively short off the tee, but somewhat straight. I played both courses without losing a ball.  I thought Portrush was fabulous and I really enjoyed the European as Pat's interpretation.  

However, both courses beat up my buddies who hit the ball further and wider. Each of them lost a number of balls and had tougher walk going up and down the hills off the fairways.

As for the 127 yard green, I enjoy experiencing the unique and quirky. It is fun trying to putt from one side to the other. Of course, forget getting the approach shot close.

[Mark Smolens]

Ian, I just got an e-mail from Mr. Ruddy making a similar point to the one you make.  I will briefly respond.  For me, "links" golf means golf played on the sandy soil linking the coast with the arable land away therefrom, characterized by hard and fast conditions.  While my personal experience is limited to three trips "across the pond" since 1983, in my most recent foray (two summers ago) we played, among others, Baltray, Island Club, County Down, Portrush, and on the last day the European Club.

The European Club is visually stunning, more so than a number of the other courses, but it does not (or, in my single experience, did not) play hard and fast.  Balls that landed 15 or 20 yards in front of the green did not bounce on or even over.  For me, it was as if I had driven to Sheboygan to play Whistling Straits.  Both great golf courses, mind you, but not (at least imo) "links" courses.

[Matthew Hunt]

I haven’t played the European Club yet but from my knowledge of the coast it is undoubtedly a links. I think the big green is cool and so did Tiger(You can’t argue with him ). On the matter of firmness it could have been rain (Not in Ireland surely! ). How do you think it compares to RCD?

PS. Pat, if reading this could you IM me.

[Mark Smolens]

In terms of firmness of the turf, there was no comparision. . . between Euro Club and any of the other links courses we played, including RCD.  At Portrush, we played 36 in the rain, sometimes heavy.  I'm sorry, but it was different.  Not necessarily bad, just different.  And I don't think I will fly for 8 or 9 hours to play a "links" course that doesn't play like one -- I'll just drive 3 hours to Sheboygan.

[Matthew Hunt]

I see what you mean. Did ypu get my E-mail Mark?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played the European Club about a dozen times in all seasons.  It was pretty firm every time I played it.  In every sense of the word it is a links.  It does have some tight driving holes but is not nearly as tight as Portrush.  The greens have all kinds of movement in them and good putting is essential.  The change the Pat Ruddy made on the hazard is a good one.  But know that Pat does not mind creating a hole that is controversial.

[Jim Nugent]

Ian,

Interesting comparison to Portrush. I played both Portrush and the European this year. I hit the ball relatively short off the tee, but somewhat straight. I played both courses without losing a ball.  I thought Portrush was fabulous and I really enjoyed the European as Pat's interpretation.  

However, both courses beat up my buddies who hit the ball further and wider. Each of them lost a number of balls and had tougher walk going up and down the hills off the fairways.

How might they have done if they took a page out of Tiger's Hoylake book, and hit more fairway woods or long irons off the tees?  

[Jack_Marr]

I've played the European Club several times. Always enjoyed it. It is absolutely a links course. It is not the same as the rest of the links courses in Ireland, which can be said about every single other links course in Ireland. I love it there.

[Robert Thompson]

I played the European Club several years ago and I was underwhelmed.  Having heard/read much hype about the European Club I was dissapointed:

  - opening inland holes were unispired  
  - lots of self promotion
  - some silly design...120 yard 12th green
 
What did i miss??

I love the fact that someone can go around a course a single time and question the vision of a man who crafted it as his own personal project. Are there holes that don't work at the European Club? I didn't care for 17 and 18 (though I understand 18 has been adjusted). Does it play like a links? Well it is built on linksland, so by definition it is a links.

"Silly self promotion?" What would you like to see? Pat probably sunk a lot of his own cash into the course. Should he then not be able to promote his course? What kind of "silly self promotion" are we talking about? I found the course and its promotion to be understated.

As for the 12th, what exactly did you dislike about the design? The green is massive, but so are those at the Old Course. Otherwise the 12th is a fine golf hole.

[Mike Policano]

Jim, you are so right! And they were so wrong. Although, only one had to play from the beach on 12.

Cheers

[Sean_A]

I too was underwhelmed by TEC.  Sure, its a good course and there are a few quirky things about it.  I did like the variety of dunes and flatter holes - something I always like to see in a links.  Other than the difficulty with any real wind about, my biggest complaint was that the ball didn't roll.  I know folks will say this and that, but I am well used to links golf and TEC didn't play like links golf.  I don't know why and I don't really care.  For better or worse these expensive clubs have normally got one chance to impress.  If they don't, I don't go back.  It may sound harsh, but that is the reality for me.

Ciao

[Ian Andrew]

We played after two solid days of rain and the ball still ran well and I used the run to my advantage everytime I was downwind.

On the 13th for example I hit a long iron off the tee and still had a run at the green with my second shot. I found there were lots of slopes to use to propel the ball. I hardly used my driver all day and shot a reasonable score for doing so.

It was course that was all about restraint at the start and opportunity later in the round. If you wanted to score, you had to show some patience. I certainly feel that you can blow your brains out long before you find the coast and some more width.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, I have played TEC in June, August and November and my ball bumped along nicely.  I have also played RCD and Ballybunion when it didn't.  I don't understand why this course continues to be controversial.  It is a wonderful test and the welcome is warm and gracious.

[Chip Gaskins]

I played the day before Duval, Tiger, O'Mera, and Cook played in 200??  I thought is was a very well laid out routing and that many of the holes were truly awesome....some of the holes felt very modern and the ball didn't bounce as much as the previous day at Portmarnock.  If they have changed the silly pond on 18 and on a nice warm dry day I suspect it deserves it Top 100 ranking.

Chip

[Ally Mcintosh]

Gents,

After visiting Lahinch last week for the first time in my nine years in Ireland, I have just managed the same with The European Club.

The main point of my post is to say that it was a unique experience. It looked and played differently to any other course that I have seen and to me this can only be a good thing.

On this course, there are some great golf holes and not a bad one in sight... Holes such as 3, 7, 8 and 12 were all exceptional... The 120 yard green on 12 is individual and fantastic... there has been no mention of the equally large green on 13 which plays like a double and sets up any number of pin positions and strategies for approach.

The majority of negative comments we hear about the course on this site are to do with the flattened fairways and the lack of firm and fast conditions. The former is certainly true to some extent but I cannot comment on the latter: It was playing soft when I was there but that was after weeks of heavy rain... Either way, do these two "criticisms" necessarily make it a weaker course?

There are umpteen classic links courses situated in The British Isles. I absolutely adore them. Unlike those who travel from the States for this experience, people in Ireland and Scotland, England and Wales are generally accustomed to them however. They welcome the variety. They have links courses, they have heathland courses, they have traditional parkland courses and they have modern inland courses with heavy emphasis on water hazards. The European Club offers a Links experience with a modern slant which I think is welcome.

It also offers the opportunity to think and make decisions which is obviously high in importance, especially because this adds to the fun ten-fold. The rail-tied bunkers may not be to everyone's tastes but at least they are consistent and they actually add to the playablility (if not safety) of the holes - Because of their alignment to the bunker face, they offer the opportunity for weaker players to get out first time whilst not altering the penal nature for the lower handicapper...

Additionally, the course is in a stunning setting with a quiet, serene and friendly atmosphere. It offers a routing that allows you to get lost in your golf, where you rarely come across others and where you lose your bearings completely. I had no idea at what orientation the clubhouse was during both the front nine and the back nines on my visit...

Overall, it might not top Lahinch which I already stated may become my favourite course in the whole country but I have been replaying this course in my mind just as much.

I look forward to returning.

[Matt_Ward]

kconway:

Concur with yout comments -- I played European Club on my last venture to Ireland and was scratching my head wondering how people could think it's one of the top 100 courses in the world. That doesn't mean to say it's a poor course or anything like that.

However ...

Just because you have an Ireland address doesn't mean sheer greatness.

The true links of Ireland -- Portrush, County Down, Ballybunion are as far apart from European Club as Secretariat was to the 2nd place horse in the Belmont from years ago.

I enjoyed my time there and no doubt there are holes present that will not suffer fools gladly. But where is the compelling architecture?

Tommy W:

Help me out - but what does the "welcome is warm and gracious" have to do with the qualities of the course itself? I don't doubt the folks there are most hospitable but it's got nothing to do with the design. You might as well say the Guiness was great there or any other non-course related item.

Just help me out with your thinking on that point -- OK ?

Robert T:

I don't doubt that several visits or more over a course can be most helpful and at times offer more illuminating insights than a single visit. But, a smart person can unearth a good deal if their eyes are open on a single visit.

Mark Smolens:

Well said.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Matt Ward,

I would like you to explain this comment in more detail please:

"where is the compelling architecture?"

And it is your perogative to choose to not fly across the ocean to play what is a "fake" links course... But the course was not laid out exclusively for your playing pleasure, the same as it was not laid out for Mark Smolens... So it is a rather redundant comment I would have thought.

[Jack_Marr]

I have played it a few times in the past, but not recently. It's a great course for me, because I enjoyed it so much, without analysing it's architectural merit. I suppose that's what I'll be looking for next time out, but I don't expect to be disappointed.

They're playing the Irish PGA Championship there at the moment. Might go out and watch it tomorrow.

John

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am inline with most of the above posts prior to Ally. I am hoping to play the course with Pat Ruddy one day to have the opportunity to learn more about this often discussed course. It should be noted for a course to recieve this much attention puts it in a small club at the top of courses on earth.

[Matt_Ward]

Ally Mcintosh:

Please try to read what I said.

I didn't trash The European Club -- I simply opined that after having played it during a visit to Ireland I was scratching my head wondering how it would could make the short list of the planet's top 100 courses.

I've played more than a fair share of the top Irish courses and I don't see all the hoopla connected to The European Club. I don't doubt it has a number of fine holes but to put the entire course on the short list with the elite of just even Ireland would be pushing the envelope quite a bit in my mind.

I don't make second visits to ANY course -- especially those in a different country -- if compelling architecture is not front and center part of the program. I found the holes to be nicely done for the most part but The European Club doesn't have the combination of holes and shot values that advance my sense of "wow" when there. Like I said, it's a fine layout but for me on a return trip to Ireland I would not be throwing it back into the mix.

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