18th Hole at Whistling Straits

[kconway]

Looking for  comments on the design/layout of the 18th hole at Whistling Straits

[Jim Colton]

I wasn't thrilled to see the pros have to lay-up off the tee on such a long par 4 to avoid driving it through the fairway.  I'd like to see them somehow join the two fairways, so if you hit it a certain distance, you get a turbo kick to the lower fairway.

[Eric_Terhorst]

kconway, why do you ask?   

The hole is kind of a blunt instrument, with no subtlety, no fun, just tight-sphincter golf...really a disappointing end to an otherwise very good golf course.

My comments from another thread

Using the Whistling Straits web site comments in quotation marks.

Hole 18 - Dyeabolical
"A well struck tee shot down the right side will surely find the fairway, but will leave a mid to long iron for the approach to the green."

This is the only option for most players--that is, from tee to green, it's a single-option hole.  It might as well be a water-lined corridor.  If you hit it in the rough off the tee, your only option is to lay up.  Good drive or not, you have a mid to long iron approach, and not much room for error around the green (see below), so the hole is generally a binary outcome--disaster or "glad to make a 5." 

"A more aggressive line off the tee to the left leaves a shorter approach but demands at least a 270 yard carry over sand dunes and bunkers."

This is nonsense for most players, obviously.  I recall an area on the left that could be made into an optional landing area with a shorter carry.  But they let the rough grow knee-high over there...

"The downhill landing area must be considered to avoid a shot that travels too far and must stop short of sand dunes and a drop-off to Seven Mile Creek."

Irritating.  If you're going to move a jillion yards of dirt, why would you build a hole with a downhill landing area that PUNISHES the player who reaches it, rather than REWARDING him?  The first time I played the hole (from the 413yd green tees) my caddy suggested driver, and I guess I outwitted him and hit a good one, which ended up going through the fairway.  Can't remember which way the wind was blowing, but looking at the yardage guide I can see that driver wasn't a very good idea with that downhill landing area.  In subsequent plays, I have just laid back with a 5-wood, necessitating an even longer approach.

"Even though the approach is downhill, swirling winds surrounding the green complex forces players to play an extra club into the green which demands a forced carry over Seven Mile Creek, guarding the front side of this huge green."

An extra club?  So now I'm hitting a fairway metal instead of a 4-iron?  With all the trouble, the wind, and a long club, it's difficult to “take dead aim” at most of the possible pin placements.  Sane people are generally making a cautious play out to the right, which might be OK except there's little room for error over there too, with a steep slope full of gaudy unnatural bunkers behind the green and pinching the bottom of the cloverleaf. (check the flyover on the web site to see what I mean).

"The green is more than 18,000 square feet with quite a bit of undulations to negotiate."

Why not reduce the size of the green, blow up the bunkers behind the green and instead make the right side and behind the green a bail-out area with a difficult up and down? 

[RJ_Daley]

You think it isn't too good now, you should have seen it the first year!  The end of the FW was much more rugged and abrupt down into the creek.  They softened it considerably.  I think they couldn't fill in down the left side due to enviro restrictions, where more FW would have made the hole more optionable off the tee.  Yet, did anyone hate the finish in regulation and sudden death playoff of PGA held there where the 18th played the decisive factor?

[Andy Troeger]

Eric,

You stated my objections to the hole pretty well; I'll save everyone the trouble of reading my ramblings that would say the same thing. Might win the "worst hole of a great course" award of what I've seen.

It does work for the pros because they can hit the approach shot (and get the drive in position to hit the approach shot). Most of us can't execute either one reguarly, and have no way to recover from our lack of execution.

[Greg Ohlendorf]

I'm in the camp that it's not a great way to end what is otherwise an exceptional layout (some also question the par 5 fifth hole). When the course first opened, we'd play the back tee by the the lake and would have to crush a drive to carry the area left of the fairway. If you executed that shot, you couldn't run through the fairway. As time went on (and I got tired of not being able to make the carry often enough), we moved up to the next block which brought the end of fairway problem into play. I also seem to remember that in the beginning there were several additional trees at the end of the fairway on the right which meant a slightly pushed shot would find a blocked path to the green. Now I try to hit something less than a driver to lay up to an aweful yardage to a cloverleaf green. Unfortunately, this is the problem when all of the holes play against the lake and the clubhouse is inland. It must have been the only way to get back!!

[Chris Garrett]

Interesting question, and hole to discuss.  The comments thus far are 100% correct.  Dye tells you what you need to do, and you are expected to execute it.  There are no ifs, ands, or buts to the 18th.

IMO, the Straits has 14 very good holes, and 4 alright, but out of place, holes (#5, #9, #11, and #18). 

[Matt Kardash]

Interesting question, and hole to discuss.  The comments thus far are 100% correct.  Dye tells you what you need to do, and you are expected to execute it.  There are no ifs, ands, or buts to the 18th.

IMO, the Straits has 14 very good holes, and 4 alright, but out of place, holes (#5, #9, #11, and #18). 

#11? It's one of the most interesting holes on the course. Certainly the best of the par 5's in my opinion.

[Tony Gorski]

I'm also not a great fan of 18 (although they're redoing it as we speak.....tees, left fairway, etc.)

Here's a picture taken from the end of the top fairway....


First, I'm not a fan of the sand lip that is supposed to catch long drives through the fairway.  Second, there is so much going on in that picture with the creek, the rocks, the cavern, the 50 bunkers long right, etc. that it's sensory overload to me. 

I do like the risk/reward of drawing your second shot into the green, but, as has been previously stated, the pin placements can be ridiculous on that green.