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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2008, 06:51:23 PM »
Mike I'm with Kelly and Bill.  I know next to nothing about Annika but I think you've made your point without dragging her into this. Unless you know more and are prepared to put it up here I'd be a lot happier if you edited her out.

Something along the lines of "presumed innocent unless proven otherwise" would seem to apply.
Guys, with the introduction of drug testing in golf, it is inevitable that golfers are going to get dragged into this topic.
Our regular group has talked about this subject many times and a few names are mentioned more than others. I think we will see many more threads on this topic over the next few years for better or worse. Maybe Mr Player does know more than we think.
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Phil_the_Author

Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2008, 06:53:26 PM »
Mike,

The question left unasked is... is it in golf course architecture designing?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2008, 08:29:40 PM »
Phillip,
YES...it has been in golf architecture for years.....I think Flynn was the first to be outed.....however I don't think there are any rules against it in GCA so it is a no harm foul. 
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2008, 08:45:10 PM »
Yes but the violent mood swings are annoying, even in the silence of reading a juiced archie's posts :D

TEPaul

Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2008, 09:20:09 PM »
"Phillip,
YES...it has been in golf architecture for years.....I think Flynn was the first to be outed....."



MikeY:

Is that right? Do you mean to say booze is a steroid too? Man, I didn't know that. How about butts, are they steroids?

Personally, I've never really understood what the big hue and cry is about steroids in sports. To me it seems like their regular use has sort of a simultaneous upside and downside that probably cancels out---eg so you get sort of artificially really strong but you all so can grow hair on your eyeballs which is never too cool when competing in top-flight sports.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2008, 09:22:03 PM »
Tony,

There are three possibilities:

1) Mike knows something definitive we don't;
2) Mike has not traveled outside the US in a while and realized that losing 25 pounds while a foreign notion for an American, is not uncommon for someone outside the States.  No one in the United States has lost 25 pounds since Eisenhower was president. 
3) She has lost the desire which led to not being a gym rat, thus the loss of muscle mass, thus loss of distance.



4) Illness
5) Injury
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2008, 09:29:52 PM »
"YES...it has been in golf architecture for years.....I think Flynn was the first to be outed.....however I don't think there are any rules against it in GCA so it is a no harm foul..."

Spoken like someone justifying their own use of the juice!

Say it ain't so, Mike... Say it ain't so...

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Horse racing/Golf/Baseball....its everywhere
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2008, 09:45:22 PM »
Big  Brown.

Regardless of a suspect field, he was very impressive in the Derby and Preakness. Perhaps the reason for his dismal performance yesterday is the most obvious, yet seemingly the most overlooked: winning those 3 races in 5 weeks is incredibly difficult. Before the race, BB looked like Pegasus. Even as they were called to the post, it looked like he was going to explode out of his skin. All along the backstretch, he appeared to be in perfect position to make his move, and yet......

Any number of things might explain his race: the heat, the scrum right before the 1st turn, the steroids losing their effect (I think Dutrow stopped administering them around the middle of May), unusual amount of mucus or lack of heart. I don't know and, frankly, nobody else does either. Consider also the fact that Big Brown raced only twice before the Derby.  Was he ready for the rigors of the Big 3 in a 5 week span? Apparently not.

The most impressive move I've ever seen from a horse was Secretariat's at the 2nd turn of the Preakness. For those that don't remember or have never seen, go to Youtube and check it out. Turcotte gave a little bit of hand urging and Secretariat went from last to 1st in seconds. Unparalleled Greatness.

What a lot of people forget is that Secretariat was beaten by 2 horses in his warm up to the Derby, the Wood Memorial. Then, like now with Big Brown, people wanted to have some sort of tangible reason as to why he was defeated by 2 horses that day. While some say he had an abcess in his mouth that day others say he simply didn't have "it" that day.

One of my greatest and simplest memories is from a beautiful fall day in 1987. It was one of my junior years at the University of Kentucky and, in the late afternoon, a buddy of mine whose family had a horse farm, asked me if I wanted to go for a ride with him. He drove me to Claiborne Farm, where we were met by the farm manager and taken to a field where the Great One was enjoying the weather. He walked to meet us at the fence and, bending down, took the carrots I had in my hand. Won't bore you further but suffice to say, after about 15 minutes of watching him, when we turned to go back to the car, my eyes were full of tears.

David:

Great story. I, too, remember that move that Big Red made on the turn at Pimlico; utterly mind-blowing, and something you almost never see. For what it's worth, I thought the move that Big Brown made entering the stretch at Pimlico, coming off the final turn, was an awfully impressive move, and one of the best bursts I've seen since Secretariat's in 1973.

Another good story about Big Red -- an SI writer once went to do a profile on him, hanging out at Clairborne, and was just watching the big horse in a field. A big jet flew overhead, and Secretariat stopped what he was doing, and stood there and watched the plane go by, then went back to what he was doing after the plane flew out of view. That was a different horse.

I blame lots of little things all adding up for Brown yesterday -- bad post position, lousy early trip, the hoof, the lack of sharp training because of the hoof, the rigors of three races in five weeks for a lightly raced horse, perhaps the steroid thing, and the lack of any good competition leading up to the big three races to sharpen his edge.

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