AT&T National

[Justin_Zook]

There was some talk on some other threads about Tiger Woods' comments regarding the necessary move from Congressional to somewhere else.

Has anyone heard any rumors as to where?  Is the logical choice still Avenel?

Is there ANY chance that we might see a move to the greater Philadelphia area for a year or so?  Given the approximate time of the the tournament, to me, it would make sense to keep the tournament in either Washington or Philadelphia.

Besides Merion, what would be the best course to host such a tournament in Philadelphia? 

[Matt OBrien]

Ace club. It is the only course to have enough room to host a venue that large. Right now they host the jim furyk event and I think they have the room to host a larger event.

[Matt Varney]

The AT&T National will stay in the DC/MD/NVA region.  Do some research and look around at the other courses in the region and you will have a very short list that will be in consideration for 2010 and 2011 after Congressional is no longer the tournament venue.

[Kyle Henderson]

Could Robert Trent Jones Golf Club handle a full field event perhaps?

[Matt Varney]

You are getting warm now and think about the tournament host he is not looking for a lower tier course especially with a sponsor like AT&T.  I have been to all the President's Cups that were hosted at RTJ it can easily handle the tournament and all the media.

I am sure it is on the table being discussed at RTJ so it comes down to the very private membership supporting this event and wanting to be the tournament venue in 2010.

[mike_beene]

Justin,you mentioned Merion.I am not good with the search engine but I think that course has been discussed in the fairly recent past.It may not have continuous cartpaths,but it is still a pretty good course.

[Paul Carey]

It has been reported a couple months ago that the tournament may go to Aronamink for 2010 and 2011.

[Jonathan Cummings]

TWF and McGlaughlin won't go for RTJ.  It is simply too far away from DC.  JC

[Justin_Zook]

Very interesting Gentlemen.  Thanks for the replies.  I was thinking about Aronamink.

Jonathan, so are you saying that any course in Philadelphia is "simply too far away from DC"?  Or is the idea to stay fairly close to any urban center?

[Jerry Kluger]

John Feinstein also said that they were looking at Philly for two years.  I believe that I read that Tiger has now agreed to look at Avenel and see if he is willing to hold the tournament there.  Tiger is no fool but he does have an ego so if he feels that the course will not be of a high enough calibre, then he does not want to be associated with it.  Within that is the fact that Avenel had a history of low scores and Tiger has made it known that he does not like tournaments which are a birdie feast, so the question is if Avenel can be tough enough for him.  However, if his foundation is going to get significantly more money if the tournament is held at Avenel, that will surely play into the equation as well. 

[Kalen Braley]

Has any thought been given to including Landsdowne in the mix?

The Norman course would be plenty challenge for these guys and it looks like they have lots of space in that area to host an event like this.  And to boot all the players and "tour" would have the resort right there to stay at.

[J Sadowsky]

Has any thought been given to including Landsdowne in the mix?

The Norman course would be plenty challenge for these guys and it looks like they have lots of space in that area to host an event like this.  And to boot all the players and "tour" would have the resort right there to stay at.

But to have a tournament that prestigious at a course that uninteresting would be terribly unfortunate.  The Norman course isn't even a top 25 public in the state of Virginia.

I don't think RTJ is any further than Congressional or Avenal (which are next to each other), in any practical terms.  Either way, its a drive that is mostly dependant on traffic, will be under an hour from the city (unless traffic is really bad for RTJ), likely at least 20 minutes from the city,  and there's no public transportation.  While RTJ is a little more inconvenient, it's not excessively so - and certainly not significantly more excessive than Lansdowne.

The only golf clubs nearer or similar in distance from Congressional and TPC is East Potmac Park, Langston, Rock Creek (all right out), University of Maryland (weak, easy), Burning Tree (no way), Bethesda, Washington Golf & CC, Belle Haven, and Chevy Chase (lack facilities), Loewes Island (logistical nightmare), Columbia (maybe, but probably no interest from the members and short), and Army Navy (interesting possibility, but probably too easy) and Country Club at Woodmore, where they hold a Nationwide Tour event, which would be an interesting alternative as well.

A final possibility would be Laurel Hill, which is a true "public" course owned by the County, embraces minimalism, and is a beaut.

[Jerry Kluger]

Justin: Congressional and Avenel are a minute or two from the Beltway and when you're getting 50,000 spectators that can be very difficult to handle. RTJ is off of Route 66 and it is a nightmare - remember also that the Presidents Cup was only 25,000 spectators, etc.  The other courses simply cannot play to a standard which Tiger demands - a winning score of 20 under is not acceptable to him.  Either Tiger likes what is done at Avenel or it goes to Philly for a couple of years which really isn't bad considering what a great golf town it is.  For that matter, I'm sure the Donald would love him to come to NJ.

[J Sadowsky]

Jerry,

I dunno.  I think Torrey is evidence that with the right greenskeeper and a willingness to have absurd rough, narrow fairways, and ice-slick greens, any 7000+ yard course can test the pros.

Is the Beltway really that much better than 66?  The bottleneck for Avenal and TPC isn't the beltway anyway, its River Road, right?  Lee Highway is at least as well equipped to handle the traffic, and they can use Nissan and the Gateway Center for parking.

Nissan serves 25,000, but the problem with Nissan isn't Route 66 - its Wellington Road.  When you get on 66 going home, its not bad.  The only key is not to combine going-home traffic with Golf traffic - which shouldn't be a problem.

I think RTJ is doable from a traffic standpoint.  Not ideal, but doable.

[Jonathan Cummings]

This has nothing to do with RTJ's ability to host an event or the quality of the golf course.  This has everything to do with how far away from DC the place is.  There is ZERO chance the AT&T will ever be hosted at RTJ.  This is a tournament honoring the national birthday and the military.  The tournament will be held close to DC (ideally) and close to Philly (as a temporary alternate).

Jerry - through out anything you remember about Avenel.  What you will see you won't believe.  This place will have Hanse bunkering, Scottish greens, mandatory caddies and be unbelieveably difficult.  I've walked every inch of the place and wrote an article about the GCA of Avenel that will be out next week.

I've been with Tiger (press conferences and AT&T committee chairmen meetings) and have heard him say that he will see how Avenel turns out.  I've also had personal conversations with TWF president (and my "boss" at the AT&T) - Greg McGlaughlin who echos Tiger's comments.  If Avenel is a home run by the assestment of the tournament players, Tiger will go there for 10/11.  He will base the event out of Congo for all years that the membership will allow.  They may work a deal with the PGA to alternate between Avenel and Congo as a fall back.  If Avenel is a bust, Tiger goes to Philly for all years Congo won't have him.

Avenel is simply the only DC alternative to Congo.

JC

[Matt Varney]

I have a friend that is a member at Congressional and the membership has voted very strongly to support the AT&T National going forward beyond 2009.  My gut tells me this is going to be held as a hybrid event with Congo and Avenel splitting up the play on these courses on Thursday, Friday with weekend play at Congo or Avenel alternating over the years.

RTJ is capable of handing this event but proximity and traffic could be a nightmare for 45K+ fans and I-66 traffic.  The President's Cup events at RTJ were great and I think they only had about 25K fans.  The AT&T would have double that number of fans on the weekends and parking would be a nightmare for all these people.  I could just image living in Maryland and driving to RTJ in NVA in the morning then sitting in 3 hours of traffic and driving back to MD to get back home that night after being at the tournament all day.

Lansdowne is nice but, it is not Congo not even close the Norman course or RTJ course.  I recently played in an event at Lansdowne and we won our flight shooting 57 on the Norman course.  After we finished I played 3 holes from the tips and made 2 pars and 1 bogey because I hit a poor chip third shot to the par 5.  TIger and these guys on tour would light up both of these courses so bad with low scores that it would hurt their reputation in the NVA golf market.