[archie_struthers]

 

seems there are a  lot of similarities between the Stone Harbor Golf Club , NJ   Desmond Muirhead   which is universally ripped and the TPC ...Pete Dye   .which really isn't .....  how come?

[John Sheehan]

Bump.

I've not played Stone Harbor, so I cannot comment.  But I'm curious what others have to say.

[Mike Sweeney]

From the GAP History of SHGC: "The 7th needed no explaining. It was an experience in pure terror. From a peninsular tee high above the water, the play on this 148-yarder was across a lake to an island green 30 yards deep by perhaps no more than two feet wide at the front and two feet wide at the rear. Imagine a squashed football, the air squeezed out of it, and you have the green. There was essentially no margin for error, because at its most generous point the putting surface was a mere 17 paces across. As for the two flanking bunkers, both sawtoothed, they, too, were islands, floating free and clear of the target island, which is to say the green. The recovery from either of these sandy hazards was almost as nightmarish a shot as the 6- or 7-iron from the tee. "




I have not played TPC but that green looks much bigger than SHGC. In the wind it was basically unplayable. Once or twice a year it was "interesting". Otherwise I say RIP.

[TEPaul]

"seems there are a  lot of similarities between the Stone Harbor Golf Club , NJ   Desmond Muirhead   which is universally ripped and the TPC ...Pete Dye   .which really isn't .....  how come?"

ARCHIIE:

TPC Sawgrass and Stone Harbor have real similarity in that both have a lot of super sharp margins for error all over the place but it seems to me Dye's style sticks a lot closer to some real solid golf architectural principles like his angles of obliques and diagonals with his sharp margins for error (artifical looking bulkheads etc). On too many holes and greens at Stone Harbor Muirhead didn't really do that---eg he got into a style and form or really blatant "visual art" that was essentially visual art form symbolism. That "Jaws" green was the most blatant and the most famous or infamous, but there were many others which they subsequently either softened or redesigned. But Muirhead didn't totally miss the boat everywhere on that course by getting into visual art symbolism and away from solid golf architecture priniciples in angles and such at Stone Harbor as I think that 6th green is actually one of the most stratgically multi-optional par 3s I've ever seen because of it over-all green shape with its big oblique angle on both sides and its multiple tee angles that can really maximize or minimize that over-all green angle.

[Matt_Ward]

Archie, et al:

If the guys who complain about the 17th at TPC ever played the ole 7th at Stone Harbor I can only imagine the howls of protest that would be coming out of their mouths.

I had the pleasure in playing the hole a few times and it was clearly "different".

If the hole was played from 100 yards or thereabouts it would have been a bit more toerable. Played from the max at 190 yards and usually into a southwest prevailing wind and it became a completely different story.

[archie_struthers]

 

Tom ...Matt...Shea Sweeney et al...Note characterization as "EVIL TWIN"

I'm totally on board that there is some genius within the madness that was Desmond Muirhead .. and the Stone Harbor Club in it's full glory ...post "dumbing down" LOL!

TEPaul the 4th hole you spoke of ...a maddening intellectual exercise with the varied attack angles  ...one day I played it firm and fast in the Invitational  to the upper tier ...reinded me of the famous par three shot at Country Club of Charleston  which we have reminisced about previously ..there wern't many threes that day

Matt remembers #7 at it's most diabolical  ( a four or five iron to a sliver with death and despair right and left... the only play in tournaments was to just rip it hard and hope to carry over some part of the green into the water beyond...insuring your four as the local rule allowed for a drop deep...if Ernie Els thinks #17 at TPC is hard ...LOL

Ditto for #18 from the tips    ......yikes was it hard

the hard edges Tom.... definitely akin to TPC ...east and west

Despite all the craziness ....it really got the juices flowing ...some days breaking 80 from tips was like breaking 75 at Galloway  ...another interesting venue

The short par 4  15th hole was (is) semi-brilliant as the  fall away green surrounded by water requires a crisp , concise play with a short iron yet allows the shorter hitter a  ground game option or simple layup in front ....
easy five ...hard three.....lots of thought went into this golf course...even if most of it might qualify Desmond as a star in the  the Timothy Leary School  of golf architecure

ciao   ARCHIE

[Matt_Ward]

Archie:

It's kind of sad to see the "changes" that have happened at Stone Habor since its early days.

The ole 7th was something to see in person. Like I said previously -- if played from 100 yards it would be fine with me because with a SW or PW the shot is more tolerable. Going into it from 190 yards with a mid to long iron is simply poke and hope to the max.

One other thing -- that silly rule drop at #7 was nothing more than a bigger gimmick.

I do agree with you on 18. Very tough driver and even more maddening an approach. Especially with the pin cut tight to the front section.

In calm conditions SH was manageable to a degree -- played in the more likely 15-25 mph and all bets were off that you could score anywhere near your handicap.

[TEPaul]

Archie:

That's right, the par 3 I was talking about is the 4th, not the 6th.

You know, Muirhead may've been a genius, and he may've been a bit like Picasso in that he had a pretty tranitional style in his early years. But when even great geniuses start dropping large amounts of acid on a regular basis and try to build a golf course in New Jersey something like the original Stone Harbor in all its glory is probably inevitable.

I've been on record here that the club should restore the course to its original. I realize it would be freaky again but I just think if something that outrageous (and I really do like to play it about once a year) is created it's much more of a tragedy to dumb it down and even attempt to make it even remotely normal than to just leave it as it was originally built.

And I miss the mermaid bunker. I hit one right off her left nipple one time. My club ripped her sand nipple right off but when I raked her out I made her nipple even more sensual than it had been before. You know, sometimes it can get a little boring for four hours on a golf course and that kind of thing definitely inspired me.

[archie_struthers]

 


beautiful ....don't forget....don't ever forget CLASHING ROCKS and Jason and the Argonauts

[Tom Jefferson]

Matt Ward.................what was the 'silly rule drop' for #7??

Tom

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()