[Patrick_Mucci]

As much as I love seemless transitions from fairway to green, I must admit that the benefit of a small incline of just a foot or so, at the front of the green makes approaching the green, especially front hole locations, so much more difficult, despite the imperceptability of the incline.

Shots hit short and slightly mis-hit shots rarely reach their target, often befuddling golfers.

In addition, drainage has to be improved.

Why don't we see more of this feature ?

What courses offer it as a systemic defense ?

I'll volunteer Hidden Creek to start with.

[JESII]

There is a great one on the 7th at Huntingdon Valley.

I bet the actual elevation rise is only 4 - 6 inches, but it really effects short pitches into front hole locations on this semi-reachable par 5.

[Mike Bowline]

I agree it makes the approach more difficult to have a slight incline before the green. However, I also really like the look for a fairway that just seamlessly blends into a green front. It appears less manufactured and appears more natural.

[John Moore II]

Pat--If you are speaking of greens with false fronts, then I volunteer Forest Creek (North). The course had several greens with somewhat significant false fronts with more grade than what you are speaking about. Those false fronted green certainly made me think and worry about my approaches.

[John Sheehan]

Roddy Ranch in Northern California uses this approach and variations of it on a number of holes.  On the 14th, a fairly long (435 from the regular tees) par 4, the variation is that a ridge running at a 45-degree angle to the approach intersects the front of the green.  A shot placed short of the green that catches the correct (left) side of that ridge will run onto the green and towards most hole locations.  One that hits the opposite, right side, of that same ridge will repel a ball away from the green - and you do not want to try to get up and down from the right side.  What makes it so ingenious is the the left side of the green falls off steeply (perhaps 20-feet??) to a water hazard.  So the natural tendency on the shot is to flinch at the last moment and bail right.

Additionally, the normal maintenace practices at Roddy (firm and fast) encourage the ground game, so this is not just theoretical as it is with many other courses in the Bay Area. 

I agree with you, this is a very intersting design feature on green complexes.

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

More of this discussion than you realize is about construction and maintenance, as much or more as it is about design.

For example, Hidden Creek's designer, Mr. Coore, likes to build "push up" greens by importing a foot of good sandy material and shaping from that.  So, if he's got a non-sandy site, he'll have to do a lot more shaping work if he wants the green fronts to blend in at grade.  He's usually starting with that one-foot rise.  Sand Hills and Friars Head (the holes in the dunes) are the rare examples where he didn't do that, because on those two courses he just used the sand on the green site.  Coincidentally (?) they are considered his two finest works.

JES' example of Huntingdon Valley is also interesting -- if those greens have been aggressively sand topdressed over the past 30 years, like greens on most of the high-end private clubs in the northeast, then the front of the green would have been raised 3-4 inches JUST FROM THE TOPDRESSING.  So the rise he likes so much may not have been there when the course opened, unless they have been topdressing the approaches just as heavily.  I hope he will go find the old plan and comment on this specific example.

[Patrick_Mucci]

J Kenneth Moore,

I wasn't referencing false fronts which tend to be less subtle.

Tom Doak,

Hidden Creek seems to be a sandy site, but, almost every green has that slight, almost imperceptable incline.

It certainly thwarts marginal and poorly thought out shots

[John Moore II]

Pat--Fair enough. In that case, I can't think of any courses where I have noticed what you are speaking about. Though I have never looked.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Prestbury (Colt) has a good number of excellent examples. It is one of the best tests of approach work in this area of many golf courses but few good ones, south of Manchester. Alwoodley (MacKenzie) has a nice blend of fairway extensions (1st and 3rd, for example) and push ups (15th, 16th and 18th, for example).

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