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Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
A picture puzzle resolved.
« on: December 18, 2007, 10:52:30 AM »
Mark's quiz on another thread is outstanding work.  So here’s something simpler?

Yes, this quiz belongs on a Golf site.

There is a common link between them and you’ll probably need it to identify all of them.







Clue.    Go with the flow.

(Of course you can cheat using the Google references but that would be just like robbing a bank.)
 ;)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 11:42:18 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A picture puzzle. Round two.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 02:59:31 AM »
Wow 141 viewings and not even a question. However at least 2/3 of the participants on here have known the answer even if they’ve forgotten. If I can get this through the first page 3x without it being solved, will my status here move straight from “Snr. Member” to “Smart Alec” without the need to pass “Go”(d)?


We are looking at grounds for golf that are NLE.  OK one is a stretch, and only one was famous as a golf course.  At least two of  them have been mentioned on this site in the last 18 months.  

In each picture I can see the grounds of a Palace.

Any Questions?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A picture puzzle. Round two.
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 03:36:00 AM »
Tony,

No. 1 is Hampton Court Palace
No. 2 is St James Palace
No. 3 is Blackheath

I cannot answer the question though!!

Mark
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A picture puzzle. Round two.
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 04:18:21 AM »
Tony,

No. 1 is Hampton Court Palace
No. 2 is St James Palace
No. 3 is Blackheath

I cannot answer the question though!!

Mark
;D
 ;D
  :)  Greenwich Palace, and the original Blackheath course.

Well done.

But what games of 'golf' were played in the other pictures?  
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 04:21:12 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A picture puzzle. Round three.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 06:41:20 PM »
Another 140 views keeps this thread alive for one more try. Thank you Mark you correctly identify all three grounds.

The theme is historical Golf in or near London and I believe there are some interesting points to be made about how the early game evolved and exported itself.   A close reading shows that Golf did not leave Scotland fully formed.
The first evidence of Golf reaching the Capital from Scotland was around 1608 where the ‘long game’ of golf was played by the well to do in full Red uniform and pomp over Blackheath.  The picture below shows fine wooden clubs and a caddy – and this is the image we often have of early golf.  There were seven holes, many crossing busy roads and although the course was expanded to include a few more holes it eventually had to be abandoned.  However there was such a fondness for it that some kept playing it even after they merged with an existing club and officially moved away a century ago.



The formal park next to the common are the Grounds of Greenwich Observatory, hence the latitude close to Zero. This is to the east of the centre of London. Over time fashions changed, the Palace of Greenwich lost favour and the West became the fashionable place to live.
A couple of miles upstream form Hampton Court Palace the famous actor David Garrick built a country retreat and a ‘temple’ to Shakespeare at Hampton about 20 miles to the west of London.  The ‘temple’ can be seen as the white dot in the centre of the photo.

I’ve written about this before and most histories include a reference to this place but they all seem to make the same mistakes.  E.G.
Cornish and Whitten
"By 1758 Molesey Hurst at Hampton was played regularly by the actor David Garrick and was praised as a "very good golfing ground" by a party of his Scottish friends."
What we know about this is from a sole source the “Autobiography of Dr Alexander Carlyle”, who traveled with some friends from Central London for a day with Garrick.  They were all Scots and they brought clubs and balls with them. They were cheered when they passed a Barracks with Scottish soldiers who spotted the clubs.  On arriving they crossed the river and played on ground that was often used for sporting events including Horseracing.  Later in the day Carlyle amused the others by ‘running’ balls from within the temple, over a mound and into the river for a bet.  This kind of game was typically known as the ‘short game’ in Scotland. Although he does not say so I believe it’s reasonable to conclude he wasn’t using his finest club to chip off a hard floor nor was he using a feathery to deliberately hit into water.   This is 150 years after the first organised formal course and club at Blackheath was established in London.   Carlyle’s autobiography shows him to have good knowledge of existing Scottish links but clearly the informal games still had their appeal.  There is no evidence of Garrick or anyone else playing there again at that time.
So only one to identify.

In all Golf Histories there is reference to “earlier” ball and stick games. I highlight the earlier, because in 1629, Quarter of a Century after Blackheath,  Charles 1 was playing this game at the Court of St James. Clearly the evolution of Golf as we know it was not as sequential as the books like to tell it.  
Final Q. The game the kng was playing was called ….?
Hint it’s on the (London) Monopoly Board.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 06:57:00 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Bourgeois

Re:A picture puzzle. Round three.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 07:10:16 PM »
It won't be long before the Scots are after you, all this talk of proto-golf in London.  The Royal Blackheath website is like a big John Bull slap at them.

Either way, I have been meaning to post on a GCA.com outing to Royal Blackheath in the quadricentennial year.

Mark

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:A picture puzzle. Round three.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 11:37:17 AM »
Thank you Mark and Mark for saving me from the feeling that I'm talking out loud to an audience of one.

But I've started so I'll finish.

In the picture above there’s a road running just below St James’s Square (in the center of the picture) past St James’s Palace which is still in use today – home to Charles and Camilla.  Once it was grounds were the game of “Jeu de Mail” or  “Pele Mele” was played.

Stirk says it was introduced to England in the seventeenth century and this one was the largest in Europe – 1000 yards long.  “A well defined court, and at its end it was necessary to hit the ball through a hoop.”



Oh the Road and English name for the Game?  Pall Mall

Happy Christmas.  I’m going for a long lie down.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 11:49:53 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Bourgeois

Re:A picture puzzle resolved.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2007, 01:13:03 PM »
Let's tee it up, say, 11 a.m. on a weekday.  I will dress up as Batman so you can find me in the crowd. (If it's particularly thick, look up to find me as I likely will climb some fencing or such so as to improve my visibility.)

I don't think we should wear the traditional red as it may cause confusion in the gallery.

And speaking of Camilla, I am sure you have heard this one many times, but apropos of the Woman Who Will Not Die:

Snow White, Tom Thumb and Quasimodo were walking down the street one day.

"I wonder if I'm still the most beautiful woman in all the land" said Snow White.
"I wonder if I'm still the shortest man in all the land" said Tom Thumb.
"I wonder if I'm still the ugliest man in all the land" said Quasimodo.

So the three decided to go and visit the magic mirror who would tell them if they still held their titles.

Each went in alone to consult the mirror and came out to tell the others what they had found out.

"Yes, I'm still the most beautiful in all the land" said Snow White.

"Yes, I'm still the shortest in all the land" said Tom Thumb.

"Who the hell is Camilla Parker-Bowles?" said Quasimodo.

Mark