[Steve_ Shaffer]

8M project!!! Perhaps Forrest Richardson can fill us in on more details:

Papago to receive face lift

Russ Christ
Special for The Republic
Oct. 11, 2007 12:00 AM
The City of Phoenix has selected the Arizona Golf Association as its joint venture partner for an extensive, $8 million renovation of Papago Golf Course.

Phoenix's most revered municipal golf course, Papago opened Sept. 7, 1963. Designed by William Francis "Billy" Bell with help from locals Johnny Bulla and Arthur Jack Snyder, it hosted the 1971 U.S. Amateur Public Links Championship.

The course, which once serviced more than 100,000 rounds of golf per year, has deteriorated over the past decade. The original irrigation system is 44 years old. Bunkers, tees and greens are long overdue for renovation.Rob Harman, deputy director of sports and turf management for the Phoenix City Parks and Recreation Department, said he's looking forward to moving forward on "a very exciting project."

"We are on borrowed time," Harman said. "And we want to be ahead of the curve where we can take care of some of these issues so people will be proud to play it again."

The city's golf operation is $12 million in debt. According to Harmon, no tax money can be used for the project. "Clearly the hope is we can get some major dollars invested in Papago," he said.

Papago is scheduled to shut down April 1 and re-open December 2008. Course fees, to help recover the debt, will likely increase from their current peak rate of $28 to walk plus $15 for a cart, but residents are expected to receive a 50 to 60 percent discount.

The AGA was one of four proposals submitted to the city. Others came from In Celebration of Golf Management, Scottsdale-based Lyon Golf, and Bellows Golf Management.

Here's the rest of the article:

www.azcentral.com/sports/golf/articles/1011papago1011.html

Here is Bill Huffman's article:

www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/99260

This should only happen to Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia

[Tom Yost]

Talk about "targeted media," am I the only one that gets the ad for the Dream Palace with the AzCentral article   ?

     

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

I got that ad also.

The article doesn't mention who will be doing the actually work, I wonder if that will be Forrest?

[Tom Yost]

Tom,

I got that ad also.

The article doesn't mention who will be doing the actually work, I wonder if that will be Forrest?

From the Tribune article:

"“So we’re not really looking at a redesign as much as a renovation. We want to keep that original routing and design by William Bell. And that’s what the AGA wants, too, which is why they’ve hired an architect with a strong turf and agronomy background who actually specializes in renovations.’’

The architect the AGA is proposing is William “Billy’’ Fuller. Chief on Fuller’s resumé: he was the agronomist and groundskeeper at Augusta National for several of its projects involving the Masters over a five-year period."

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

         That's a bummer... I think Forrest would have done a superb job.

         I am glad they are finally getting around to fixing up poor old Papago. I played it once about 10 years ago and it was flat worn out, but 70,000 - 100,000 rounds a year with some neglect thrown in will do that.

[Tom Yost]

I did get out to Papago for a round last month.  It was my first visit in 10+ years.  I took some photos and was trying to find time to do a little write up.

The course itself wasn't in bad shape actually.  Obviously, the infrastructure is decaying - crumbling cart paths, crusty water fountains, etc.  None of that concerns me,  my only complaint was the fairways were narrowed to US Open style.  Perhaps they were preparing for some competition.   A new irrigation system and some tree removal should allow for better defined and healthier turf areas.  Greens were fine.  

I will definitely want to play it again before they shut down in April.

Tom

[Forrest Richardson]

I was very surprised to read the articles. We provided a master plan to the Arizona Golf Association that they were to incorporate into their proposal. We were also listed with another proposer who scored second in the rankings. There were three proposals in total.

I spoke with Billy Fuller a few days ago. He was not aware we had done anything for the AGA nor that we were even involved.

It is an odd situation. I cannot imagine that the AGA used our work (which was done at no-charge except for some staff time and expenses) and then replaced us with someone else...but that appears to be the case. So far no return calls fro the AGA, so we are in the dark.

I wish I could report more, but I truly am dumbfounded at this stage.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

There is opposition to the renovation proposal from a group- Save Papago Golf Coalition.

Here is Bill Huffman's article


www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/100366

[Scott Weersing]

There is opposition to the renovation proposal from a group- Save Papago Golf Coalition.

Here is Bill Huffman's article


www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/100366

The group does not oppose the remodel, renovation, rather they think the new course will lose money. It could turn it into another Harding Park story.

Is the new course going to be better than other courses in nearby Scotsdale?

Hey Forrest, who is doing the redesign?

[Forrest Richardson]

All I can report is what I know.

We completed a Master Plan before 2007. The Arizona Golf Association (AGA) received a donation to offset our out-of-pocket expenses and some staff time. My time was donated, as was some consulting by Billy Mayfair. (We both played there as kids and went to the same high school.)

When the City RFP came out the AGA wanted exclusive use of the Master Plan. I agreed to this, making sure they knew that I had been asked about the work to help other groups. I agreed not to use any of the work they wanted to use (i.e., we would start over, create new documents, etc., if we worked with anyone else.)

The proposals totalled three. Our office were included in two: the AGA and another management/development company. I made good on my promise: We began from scratch with all of the work for the #2 group. Their proposal was different in many ways, although the heart of restoration and renovation to the course was similar in their approach. (This is because the City's criteria was very strict in what can be done.)

We heard that the scoring process was complete. Then, two weeks ago got the bomb dropped on us when we heard that the "AGA was going to use a golf course designer from Atlanta, Billy Fuller to do the work". The AGA was scored highest and the City began negotiations with them.

We tried to get answers from the AGA, but could not get any. As time went on we heard from everyone else but the AGA asking us what was going on. When I got a copy of the AGA proposal I found our Master Plan edited, changed and incomplete.

 I finally made the decision last week to ask the AGA to stop using our Master Plan because they had no approval to edit it or make changes without our involvement and approval.

I did hear from them and there was an effort made to work out matetrs so they could continue using our work. I have not heard from them since being asked for a solution.

I have nothing to do with the "Save Papago" group, although their objectives appear genuine to their beliefs.

I am not sure where this is all headed. It really is a shame that the work we spent so much effort and time preparing was not handled well.

[Bill_McBride]

Whew.  City politics can be brutal.  Does this kind of thing happen all the time in the world of golf course architecture?  It unfortunately does in the world of commercial construction and development, all the time....

[Forrest Richardson]

I can honestly say that I have never had anyone take my work (before it was built    ) and edit it or make changes. That simply is not done. It violates about every edict you can think of: moral, ethical and legal.

W. F. Bell and Jack Snyder must be rolling in their graves.

[Bill_McBride]

This is all very curious.  Has the Arizona Golf Association engaged in golf course construction projects in the past?  I know the California associations have, at least NCGA, but wasn't aware of other state associations engaging in projects like that.  It sounds like they are on shaky ground in this case at best.

[Forrest Richardson]

Bill — I cannot answer that. I think some of their team members have experience in construction of golf projects. But, as for the AGA itself, I am not sure.

[Bill_McBride]

Well good luck to you, Forrest, I hope some sanity will prevail and nobody gets hurt.  From what I have seen of your designs (Wigwam Gold and Las Palomas), they would be very smart to have you go ahead.  Feel free to use me as a reference!  

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