[astavrides]

Maderas is ok.  From playing them both once, it reminded me a little of Eagle Ridge, but not as severe, and without the houses.

I proud that my thread has morphed into like 5 different topics so far.

[John Keenan]

Since this has morphed into somewhat of a Johnny Miller design discussion, any played Eagle Vines in Napa? I have been invited to pay with some friends there in early November. They described as part Shakespeare/Chardonnay part a new course.  

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:

I played it.  It is indeed one of the former Clun Shakespeare nines plus a new nine.  I'd say overall it's pretty good, not worth seeking out but definitely worth playing if you're up there.  Take the friends up on the invite - you won't regret it.

TH

[Tim Leahy]

Tom & John, I think Eagle Vines is 11 old and seven new or vice versa. It has some good individual holes but the routing is all over the place. Not worth the prime time rate, but worth a play. We have a garbage Miller course here in Sacto too, Whitney Oaks, needs a typical JM redesign. Do you think he does that on purpose? Oh, and you left out Poppy Ridge as another bad East Bay course.

[Tom Huckaby]

Is it really 11 and 7?  Hell, could be, I don't know, I only played it once.  And Whitney Oaks is legendary... as for Poppy Ridge, Messrs. Pieracci and I played it in the NCGA Masters (over 40) 4ball recently (along with Mr. Benham and his partner) and I must say our relatively poor play was caused at least a little bit by bad moods.  You see, each of us stated separately at one point in the 36 holes:  "you know, the more I play this course, the more I dislike it."

And it's true, even for me.  I had been a supporter/defender of Poppy Ridge, but now the bullshit conditions even have me disliking it.  That stupid clumpy grass in the rough everywhere is just not conducive to golf fun... and the way they water the crap out of it, making a soft course out of one that might be fun it if were firm, just seals the deal.

The design has always been kinda suspect, but at least before conditions were good, making it at least somewhat fun.

Now?  Add this all up and factor in that it's a very very very hard walk and we have a facility that only the MOST ardent NCGA supporter can possibly be proud of. It's kinda sad, really.

They do have a great practice area, though.

TH

[Kyle Henderson]

As far as the Johnny Miller discussion goes: Whitney Oaks is indeed quite absurd, but it has a few charms. I found Eagle Ridge less offensive, Metropolitan better still, though boring from tee to green in a few stretches. I'm still on board as a Poppy Ridge fan to some degree, though it is far too squishy and penal.

By comparison to any of those courses, Bridges is a complete joke. But The Ranch is a singular entity in terms of it's impossibly contrived, shoe-horned, difficult nature. I think it would make for a fantastic GCA outing in that respect, though anyone who is offended by the bunkering on the 15th hole at Cypress Point would probably have a nasty infarction just from looking at a topographic map of The Ranch site.

I doubt even Mr. Cohn could come up up with a redesign that could salvage that travesty.

[Jed Peters]

Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....

How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.

[Kyle Henderson]

Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....

How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.

I believe it was the "Sierra Nevada Golf Ranch," or something to that effect. I also believe he collaborated with John Harbottle III on that one. I'm sad to hear it is subpar. I'll just focus on Metropolitan, lest my opinion of Mr. Miller be overly stercoraceous...

[Kalen Braley]

Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....

How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.

I believe it was the "Sierra Nevada Golf Ranch," or something to that effect. I also believe he collaborated with John Harbottle III on that one. I'm sad to hear it is subpar. I'll just focus on Metropolitan, lest my opinion of Mr. Miller be overly stercoraceous...

Before you all pile on too much, Thanksgiving Point, is far from a travesty.  Outside of the fact that it would be a brutal walk, its got some very good holes including 13-17.

[Mike Benham]

I thought Metro was actually done by associates of Johnny and had very minimal work done by him on it?

As for Stonetree, I've heard it is still more of the same crapola, though I've never played it.

Jed - that was my point in that Metro has his name on it but he may not have actually done it.  If so, he did a great job by not making it unplayable.

[Kyle Henderson]

I thought of that clear back when I wrote this a couple years ago:


DUBLIN RANCH GOLF COURSE.

The idea of a so-called ““executive length”” golf course is an instant turn-off for many players; unfortunately they miss some unique layouts like Dublin Ranch Golf Course, the subject of this month’’s installment of our ““Road Trips for County Golfers”” series.

Located just two miles off highway 580 at the Fallon Road exit in Dublin, Robert Trent Jones, II senior architect Don Knott transformed an undulating parcel of land into a delightful and entertaining string of holes for players of every ability.

There is a tendency in this country to dismiss any golf course with a par of less than 70 with yardage under 6500 yards as ““too easy.”” Dublin Ranch, with a par of 63 and 4820 yards is a legitimate test of golf. Throw in a little wind and the average 15 handicapper will do well to break 80.

It reminds me of an English fellow I met in a pub many years ago. We were discussing the overall length of golf courses in England vs. the United States. He chuckled (with a hint of a sneer) ““Well, your courses may be longer than ours, but not certainly not better. In America, ‘‘big’’ is its own justification, isn’’t it?””

Ouch. One only has to look at that horrendous mess at ““The Ranch Golf Club”” in San Jose for an example of the stupidity of trying to jam a full sized layout on acreage better suited to a shorter course.

By contrast, Dublin Ranch flows with the land, taking full advantage of scenic views and natural greensites with an ingenious routing that includes a par-five on both sides of the 31-32-63 total par.
Each nine hole sequence more or less follows a clockwise circle, presenting a different wind direction from all points on the compass.

The strength of the golf course is in the eleven par-three holes. They vary in length from 143 to 224 yards, each completely unique. The shorter holes require pinpoint precision, the longer ones provide ample area to use the contours of the ground to run the ball to the hole.

Our favorite features on the course were part of an overall theme to encourage several different approach shot options with mounds, rolls, folds and kick-points. Depending on the pin placement and shifting wind directions, a 150 yard shot might require anything between a 9-iron and a 4-iron

The fringes of the green are kept closely mowed on one side or another, so short hitters, women and seniors have few forced carries to contend with.

Despite the awful weather of late, the conditions were outstanding with firm fairways, manicured nearly perfect. The putting surfaces are smooth and consistent. In truth, it is a public course with better overall agronomy than the vast majority of the private clubs.

Unless you show up on a weekend morning, play moves along at a brisk pace. A gentleman I played with tells me you can walk up most afternoons with little or no waiting. We played on a Sunday afternoon and got around the course in about three hours. Dublin Ranch opened a year ago and word of its quality has not spread much further than the locals.

Our favorite holes included the 7th, a drop-shot from a terraced tee box to a green nestled at the bottom of a natural depression. In the distance are rolling hills with towering Mt. Diablo as the centerpiece. To the left a lonely radar dish listening to the stars.

As Dublin Ranch is routed along a series of high ridges, there are expansive panoramas on nearly every hole. My only complaint was a series of garish tract houses on three holes crowding the fringes of my photos with the requisite tiny backyards, enclosed with ugly green iron fences.

We also liked the ninth hole, a par-4 that slides around a corner bunker to a firm green fronted by a steep ramp. The putting surface is divided into sections, altering the strategy of where to land the approach shot with every move of the pin.

Normally, long par-3's can be a slog with no personality. Knott did a superb job with the 224 yard 15th by constructing a sprawling putting surface with 40 yards in front to chase the ball onto the green. At Dublin Ranch, the holes that look difficult can be parred with nothing more than a decent swing and a little brains.

By contrast, for the overly aggressive, trouble lurks. The phrase ““deceptively easy”” is an apt description of the 17th - a 143 yard par-4 that looks to be little more than a long pitch. Yet the wind swirls, and the narrow and wide putting surface guarded front and left lures you towards a steep fall-off. The smart play is to the bailout area hidden on the right, that kicks the ball onto the green.

At Dublin Ranch you must look hard and think carefully.

The par-5 18th hole might be the most intricate, strategic and downright clever finishing hole in the Bay Area. At 521 yards, the fairway splits into two landing areas, divided by a grassy wall. The left side is an easier target and carry, but confronts players with a blind second shot over a bunker. Staying left also leaves a maddening uphill third over yawning bunkers with the green falling away.

Staying to the right off the tee has its own set of problems, including an uphill carry and a hungry bunker that must be carried on the second. However, two good shots that reach the optimal landing area are rewarded with an inviting pitch to a wide-open target.

For apres’’ golf, the clubhouse facilities and hilltop view are first cabin. Fees run from $47 to $65, Twilight rates (3PM) from $35 to $48. A replay is only $35 and there are special rates for Juniors and Seniors. Phone 925-556-7040 Ext#2, or look them up on the web at www.dublinranchgolf.com

I played Dublin Ranch this morning. It seems the management there has also been bitten by the "championship course" bug. About half of the holes have new, longer back tees. However, where the original tees are all quite expansive, rectangular and perfectly flat/groomed, the new ones are little, ageometric slivers of uneven turf shoved into nooks or pushed out from the natural hillsides. Some of them feature saplings which were sloppily planted one after another every two feet, several of which are already leaning over with their support steak pulled out of the ground by the wind. Some of them have bushes growing right up to the front of the tee box which they didn't bother to clear away. The even did a shoddy job of engraving the new yardages on the existing hole diagrams which are displayed on small boulders next to each tee box. The course used to be immaculate, but these changes all stick out like sore thumbs

From what I've seen in print, the changes were made in house (sans architect) to boost the posted yardage of the course and attract "better players." Personally I think the new tees allow better players to bomb driver on every hole by making the hazards unreachable, whereas the old tees may have forced more fairway woods and irons off of the tee for the timid. Fortunately, the old blue tee boxes still exist for those that wish to ignore tee markers (if only Augusta National had kept their old tee boxes…)


Alas, apparently, big is still its own justification, Gib.

[Patrick Kiser]

Boy, The Ranch sure sounds like ... dare I say ... Summitpointe.

Eagle Vines is ok, but Metropolitan is more fun.  Their GPS racket fee at Metro has really turned me off though AND it now costs more to walk than ride.  I'm not kidding.  Book your round on Golfnow then ask to switch to walking and it costs you more.  Nuts or what?

Dublin is real fun, but whenever I mention it to friends ... they cringe at the short length.  I try to explain how it's a fun experience with 12-13 par 3's and ... still no interest.  So I'm not surprised of the changes there.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

THE RANCH is actually nothing at all like Summipointe, except perhaps in terms of hilly terrain.  As weird as Summitpointe is, it's airport-landing field wide compared to The Ranch.

I am not kidding....

TH

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