[John Kavanaugh]

What is the difference as far a duties and production when working on a summer crew at a golf course?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Interns are there to learn the profession, so they should have a closer association w/the super or his asst.

Not so w/day laborers, in general.

[John Kavanaugh]

Interns are there to learn the profession, so they should have a closer association w/the super or his asst.

Not so w/day laborers, in general.

I agree with that in theory.  For lack of a better term I am referring to day labor as the guys who may not speak english but work everyday year in and year out at the same course.  In season of course.

Isn't there as much value in teaching day labor the profession as an intern and visa versa in that the intern should also be doing the grunt work of the lowest employee.  I see perfect balance in the intern and day labor being equals.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'm not saying the intern shouldn't/doesn't get his/her hands dirty, only that they are in a degree program and have more requirements to meet than day laborers.

[Mike Sweeney]

John,

How would this be different from your business model as a contractor with peak and quiet seasons? Other than government contracts and unions (Yale GC excluded), I would assume you have a similar model to a greens staff?

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

How would this be different from your business model as a contractor with peak and quiet seasons? Other than government contracts and unions (Yale GC excluded), I would assume you have a similar model to a greens staff?

There is no value in me hiring an engineering intern to ride around with my superintendant and look good.  Being a union contractor I do hire apprentices who are learning the trade.  They take a small amount of care but are paid a lower rate and thus value based.

Are turf students paid such a low rate that they are value based or are they a way of giving back to the industry.  Can you make money from an intern?

[Kyle Harris]

John,

I spent the first few months or so as an intern pushing sand and doing other tasks that wouldn't involve me killing grass. I got paid a bit more, but then again, while I was doing the labor I was expected to set the example and have my work be the best of all the laborers.

I agree with you in principal, however, the disadvantage is that the season is only so long and learning the more technical side of things is difficult.

I was at an advantage that I enrolled in an online certificate course as I already have my Bachelors. I was able to move to Florida to offset the off-season in Philadelphia.

[John Kavanaugh]

How many turf student interns do you think a super can handle at one time without doing a disservice to the interns and the club?

[Kyle Harris]

How many turf student interns do you think a super can handle at one time without doing a disservice to the interns and the club?

That depends on the amount of Assistants. I'd say 2, that way the interns can work together as well.

[John Kavanaugh]

Hmmm...Sounds like seven might be overkill.

[Peter Zarlengo]

Here's something I can speak about with personal experience. I have been both a laborer and an intern the past two summers. The main difference between the two positions was scheduling and responsibility. As a laborer I had a set task to complete everyday, as opposed to the variety of jobs I could have been doing as an intern. As an intern, I was held to more of a management position, actings as a semi-assistant to the super.

I made almost double the money as an intern. But that was after I had the experience as a laborer, and in a completely different environment.

Both were valued experiences, but you definately get your hands dirtier as a laborer. And probably learn more in the process, even if it is in fewer areas.

This summer I was one of four interns, which was probably one too many. But this was golf construction, not maintenance.

Getting at what I belive is the heart of your question, I think that you can get more out of quality laborers because they will be there longer. Not to say that that all the laborers I've met are completely commited and enthusiastic to golf construction or maintenance. Not to say that interns don't work hard, but its definately more of a short term investment for someone who is passionate and willing to learn.

[John Kavanaugh]

This summer I was one of four interns, which was probably one too many. But this was golf construction, not maintenance.

What is the difference between construction and maintenance knowledge and manpower requirements when it comes to interns and day laborers?  

[Michael_Stachowicz]

I am actually looking to increase my intern staff...I don't think the risk is a disservice to the club, the risk of too many interns is a disservice to the interns and not exposing them to enough facets of the operation to make their internship worthwhile.  Having as many guys as possible that are career driven and that bring an eye for detail will really bring up an operation up a level...this obviously can only benefit the club.

[John Kavanaugh]

Please give an example of how an intern with an eye for detail would benefit a club.

[Peter Zarlengo]

Please give an example of how an intern with an eye for detail would benefit a club.

While working as a laborer at Colorado GC last summer Bill Coore and company came out and were a little dissatisfied with how the native grasses above and around the bunker lips looked. They were just a little too thick, probably not uncommon for a grow-in situation with all of the fert. and water. The super at the club wouldn't be able to tell one of the other laborers to thin them out because they would have whacked the crap out of it, not achieving the ideal look that the architect and client wanted.

So because they knew of my design interest and detail work, I was in charge of thinning out all of the bunker grasses to a look more appropriate from an aesthetic and design standpoint.

[Mark Dorman]

Please give an example of how an intern with an eye for detail would benefit a club.

I spent my summer as an intern.  The course I worked on had maybe 4 people with a background in turf, and maybe only 3 or 4 others who actually played golf.  

Things like how bunkers are raked (which depends on knowing how a bunker is shaped [high, low points]) and how/where to properly turn with a walk mower or triplex are a few concepts I can think of that most the workers would not grasp.

I think clubs can benefit from an intern because they are exactly that, interns.  An intern obviously plans on doing this for their career, and therefore are motivated to perform at a higher standard, and have the knowledge to do so.  Laborers may or may not really care about their work or how the course looks, it's just their job to finish what they are assigned.  That is just what I took away from my experience.

I worked for the Golf Club at Newcastle in WA.  Although not exactly the most amazing course architecturally or condition wise, I enjoyed working and playing there.  And for those greens fees I worked especially hard to make it look good.

[Dan_Lucas]

An intern has an investment in doing a good job and keeping his boss happy. If he doesn't pass muster he has lost a year or two in his career path.

He will work overtime and do most any reasonable task with minimal whining (at least where the boss can hear). He generally is a golfer which cuts out a lot of training points. He is usually a Certified Pesticide Applicator so spraying and fertilizing are easy for him. He usually has experience in course maintenance and knows what most common diseases look like. He WANTS to learn new jobs because he has to know everything possible to get where he wants to go. If encouraged by his boss he will THINK on the job and maybe help find ways to do things better and more efficiently.

Most of all he cares what the course looks like and plays like because he has a stake in it.

You can find "day laborers" with these qualities, but the percentages are very low compared to interns.

Employing interns also serves as a hell of an interview when you need a new Assistant.

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