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mark chalfant

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Garden City par fives
« on: August 04, 2007, 09:24:33 AM »
Years ago I caddied at  GC and I remember an interesting set of par fives. I especially loved the drive  and the green complex at #13. The 550 yard 7th did not  have much rolling terrain but seemed strategic. Could somone share their thoughts on the three shot holes at Garden City men's club. thanks

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:Garden City par fives
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 01:41:12 PM »
Mark;

  There are interesting par fives at GCGC.  As you say, the 7th hole does not have very much movement in the ground, but the player is faced with a blind tee shot and an offset, but wide, fairway.  If the player drives in the fairway, the green can be reached in two, in the right conditions.  If the player misses the fairway, a lay up may be in order to the end of the first fairway, although I've seen a lot of guests, and the occassional member, take more strokes than needed on the hole because of not taking their medicine. For most of the year, the rough is too tough for most players to get enough club on the ball to get it down there and onto the second fairway.  
The second fairway starts at about 190 yards from the center of the green; there is a bunker short and right.  Pat can elaborate more, but I understand the original approach was made from more to the right, over the current bunker.  

Fourth hole is another hole with a blind drive--the best line is at the smokestack in the distance.  Depending on hitting the fairway, it can be a go/no go proposition.  For longer hitters, there is a (blind) fairway bunker on the left that must be avoided--it is deep, and the penalty is a chip-out.  Approach in 2 is slightly downhill to a well-guarded green; this green will repel poor shots, and even just missing the green is no picnic; on certain parts f the green, the player must be delicate with their wedge shot or risk the ball rolling off the front of the green, and another 20 yards down the slope.  
Safe play from the fairway is to about 125 yards (fairway ends at 115) in order to spin the ball.  I have also seen some other members play just shy of the green in two and have a pitch-it all depends on the drive.  I've seen eagles as well as eights on this hole.  

13 is a good par five; slightly elevated tee shot (for Garden City), crossbunker at about 305 keeps driver in the bag for some.  The special thing about this hole is the player's vantage point from the fairway--the 13th and 15th holes appear to be adjacent.  Green sloped front to back from the player and from right to left.  

17; crossbunker at 190-200 with directional flag is to be avoided.  Offset fairway--shorter hitters can take it at the clock tower, longer hitters can go a little further left of there.  OB and Rockaway Avenue down the entire right side; again, segmented fairway.  Green sloped back/front.  

I think with these examples, you have several with blind drives, one with a the ball visible at all times.  The greens are all different (one is pitched slightly L-R, one is more F-B, the other is B-F).  

I'll write more later today.  
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 03:27:35 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Garden City par fives
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 09:51:30 PM »
Years ago I caddied at  GC and I remember an interesting set of par fives. I especially loved the drive  and the green complex at #13. The 550 yard 7th did not  have much rolling terrain but seemed strategic. Could somone share their thoughts on the three shot holes at Garden City men's club. thanks

Mark,

Give me a couple of days and I'll make a post.

They are three distinctly different par 5's, each unique in the topography, design and play.

Please remind me if a post isn't up by friday.

Thanks

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Garden City par fives
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2007, 06:12:35 PM »
Mark,

I find them very different.

# 4 is a blind tee shot to a very wide fairway that falls away and left toward a deep bunker complex at a distance reachable by big hitters.  There's a big cross bunker amidst a section of deep rough, with the green elevated and guarded by bunkers left and right.

The blind tee shot, with OB right isn't that demanding due to the very generous fairway width.

The real challenge if the fairway is hit, is the decision to lay up or to try to get beyond the crossing feature.

Balls layed up usually have 120 to 140 left to the green, a green with a back tier, a green that slopes from high left to low right, that's fairly steep on the front tier.  Long is not good as the rough is difficult and you're playing to a green that falls away from you.

Layed up second shots face a dicey green from 120 and out.
Second shots that go for the green can be rewarded quite handsomely, but, errrant second shots can leave the golfer with a dicey third.

The front of the green is pinched by the flanking bunkers.

The wind tends to blow from right to left and can be a major factor in determining how the hole is played.

The ideal approach is low and right of the hole

# 7  also has a blind tee shot with very little in the way of distant markers to help the golfer.  It plays as a dogleg after the tee shot which lures many golfers into taking a direct line.
A slight pull or hook results in a ball in deep rough or a deep bunker behind # 10 green, leaving a dicey third to a green that runs away from them, from high left to low right.

In 1936 the second fairway was about 30 yards right of the current fairway and right up against a long, deep trench bunker.  The right side of the second fairway slopes from high right to low left, leaving the golfer with an approach to a green that slopes the opposite way, often leaving them above the hole, very similar to the 3rd hole, a par 4.

There's also a semi-crossing bunker and mounding feature short and to the right of the green.

This feature comes into play when attempts to reach the green in two are made.

The angle of attack combined with the featues make the area near the green narrow.

A prevailing wind blows from right to left

The ideal approach is low and right of the pin.

# 13 is played from a slightly evelvated tee to a wide fairway with OB and trouble right.

The second shot is blind.

There's a cross bunker complex thats cut into the high point of a ridge that obscures the second shot which is to an area lower than the cross bunkering.  The hole is a gentle dogleg. with deep bunkers flanking the second shot areas.

Deep bunkers requiring ladders flank the front and right rear of the green.

The ideal approach is to be long of the pin, leaving an uphill putt.

The green is blind on the approach as the terrain rises up slightly in front and the green then slopes away from the golfer, thus it's difficult to "dial" the shot in.

A prevailing wind is in the golfers face

# 17 is blind off the tee with a cross bunker blocking any view of the fairway.  The cross bunker becomes a factor when a prevailing wind is up, especially if its cooler and/or raining.

OB runs along the entire right side.
Deep flanking bunkers are on the left in the DZ with shallower bunkers on the right.

There's a cross feature of rough which could catch really long drives or recovery second shots off of so-so drivers.

There are deep bunkers flanking the left side of the second fairway.

There are very deep bunkers left of the green and fairly deep bunkers on the right.   The right side bunkers used to be one big bunker, but, someone chopped it up into three sand bunkers and one grass bunkers.   This disfiguration has not worked well, but, noone has jumped forward to fix and restore the misguided work.

The green slopes from high back to low front, with some cant, helping the golfer

A prevailing wind is in the golfers face

The ideal approach is short, below the hole

All fairways are quite generous.

I hope that helps

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