[Mark Studer]

Tom- It would be my pleasure to host you for a game sometime.  The firm  bounces brought back by the last 8 years of topdressing and hand mowing approaches is fun to see.  I'm with George P. in hopes that the weather holds out.  We had ideal conditions for the '03 usam.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

I can perhaps understand your criticism of 8, and even maybe #1 as a starter that's perhaps a tad severe, but I'm really confused about what you don't like on 2 & 17.

In 83 I spent a few hours each day just watching play at the green and it was like watching kids on a frozen lake that's starting to crack.   It gave new meaning to the term "gingerly".

#17 provides all sorts of options, including potentially driving the green late in the round at a critical time.   You gotta love that on some level!  

[paul cowley]

Tom....I have just been reminded that you have been good for a time longer than your years suggest.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I hope to take you up on the invitation sometime.  Mike Davis invited me to play in the Media Day but I could not get away.  I had really hoped to get out there for a day or two of the Open, but I'm spending all next week in Montana, Bandon, and Bend Oregon, happily engaged.  We'll be watching on the tube though.

Mike C:

I just don't think the second hole is all that interesting.  As for 17, when I wrote the review, the club was busily engaged planting trees and growing long rough to TAKE AWAY the option of trying to drive the green and force everyone to play out to the right.  I haven't seen the hole since they reversed course.

[Mark Bourgeois]

While looking through The Confidential Guide, trying to see if there are any great courses which don't have good routings, I came across my review of Oakmont and thought I would reprint it here for those without a book.


This must be considered as one of the classic American courses because of its place in the history of American course design, but it was probably my least favorite of the classics untilt he most recent Open [1983], which cemented my fondness for it.  It has all the charm of an S.S. commandant the way it is set up for a tournament, but the more everyone whined about it the more I grew to appreciate it:  it kept the best players in the world in check without resorting to the water and out-of-bounds that modern designers employ.  I've never understood why water to the right of a green is unacceptable, but rough and a tilted green that make it impossible to get up and down from the right are "unfair".

Hole-by-hole, I like the 3rd and 4th (though I dislike the Church Pews), the 12th, 13th, the 15th, and the 18th, and the 9th solely for its combination green and putting clock; but I hate the 1st hole as a par-4 opener, plus the 2nd, 8th, and 17th.  I'm also disappointed that the club has placed such emphasis on excessively fast greens; their contour would hold plenty of interest wihtout it, but the attention they've given to speed has led other courses to overdo it, too.  But you can't really hold that against the layout itself.  9.  [10/94, which is still the last time I was there]


Other than wondering what I was thinking by implying that modern architects have used o.b. as a defense of par, I'll stand by that review.

Wait a minute, don't you need reprint permission? I heard the rights passed to Michael Jackson as part of The Beatles deal.

[Jim Nugent]

Could Oakmont rise to a 10 on the Doak scale, now that they have removed so many trees?  

What about some of the other top courses Tom reviewed?  Might any of them have changed -- gone up or down in the ratings -- since he wrote the CG?  

Another question: what could some of 9's do, if anything, to become 10's?  

[Ryan Farrow]

Oakmont will always be different from some of the other classics in terms of strategy and what not. It's Toms scale but tree removal or not I still think it lacks the essetials to make it a 10. I love the course but its just too hard and too demanding to give it that high of a ranking.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Mark S.,

I'm looking forward to this year's US Open more than any other in recent history, simply because it's back at Oakmont. I'm a HUGE fan of the course. It's so individual, and interesting.

Hats off to you and your fellow members, and John Zimmer and his crew, for preparing a wonderful course for all of us to enjoy (even if the world's best may not!). I'm sure the event will be an ultimate success, and we'll see the US Open back at Oakmont very soon.

[Marty Bonnar]

I cannot for the life of me find a photo of Darren Nesbit. He played SS Sturmbannfuher Von Hapen in the film "where eagles dare".

He was quite charming if I have the correct character.

The blonde gestapo guy who buys it right between the eyes.

Adam,
DErren.
http://www.whereeaglesdare.com/images/characters/character_17.gif

Although I always preferred Col. Klink:
http://img.search.com/thumb/6/63/Klink.jpg/180px-Klink.jpg

(removed for copyright)

 

FBD.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim N:

For the record here are the 10's once again:

Shinnecock Hills
National Golf Links
Merion
Pine Valley
Pinehurst #2
Crystal Downs
Cypress Point
Royal Melbourne (West)
Muirfield
St. Andrews
Royal Dornoch
Ballybunion

Three or four of these courses were improved significantly at some point after their opening; but, for the record, no architect to date has taken a 9 and turned it into a 10.  It is my profound belief that any course which has achieved a 9 on the Doak scale is good enough to stand the test of time, and that attempted improvements are more likely to cause harm than good.

[Jerry Kluger]

Tom: The quote which Geoff referred to can be interpreted to either mean that the player will be tortured until he finally is defeated or it is just a matter of time until the commandant picks him out and knocks him off (One hole just destroys the player and his will is gone) - I recognize that this might not be a significant difference but did you mean the course will wear the player down or the player will come to one hole and be destroyed?

[Scott Weersing]

Mark:

I hope to take you up on the invitation sometime.  Mike Davis invited me to play in the Media Day but I could not get away.  I had really hoped to get out there for a day or two of the Open, but I'm spending all next week in Montana, Bandon, and Bend Oregon, happily engaged.  We'll be watching on the tube though.

Mike C:

I just don't think the second hole is all that interesting.  As for 17, when I wrote the review, the club was busily engaged planting trees and growing long rough to TAKE AWAY the option of trying to drive the green and force everyone to play out to the right.  I haven't seen the hole since they reversed course.

Did anyone notice that when we are watching the US Open, Mr. Doak will be visiting Bandon?

Is this the first official, architect's walk over the land, for the Old MacDonald course?

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