[John Kavanaugh]

As a result, says Fazio, who was not a tour player, "The players today can't afford to just lend their name to a project and cash a check. … They know critics will show up and hammer them if the course isn't that great and the player wasn't (actually) involved."

The article: http://tinyurl.com/2pwpa4

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't know if I have ever read an article with so many interesting quotes.  Please pull and post your favorite.

[cary lichtenstein]

John:

I read the article this morning at breakfast and thought that the average guy reading this will probably believe every word.

Cary

[Mark Bourgeois]

"I think if you asked me today who's the best golf designer, it's Jack Nicklaus," says Player, 71. "Why? Because he was a hacker, believe it or not, at one stage in his life. Then he became a reasonable player, then a better player, then the best player in the world.

"So he could look at a golf course from all different angles, whereas no other golf architect who's a 15 handicap can ever possibly do that. All of the players who are designing now have that background. I think it's great that they are all getting into it. Golf is the winner here."

[Mike Hendren]

I liked:

"It's only been in the last 30 years or so that people learned that a golf course was actually designed," Fazio says. "Before the golf stars gave it recognition, the general public really wasn't interested in who designed the course."

Branding.

[John Kavanaugh]

Does anyone know the writer of the article Steve DiMeglio.  I just went through his archive and he flat out Van Sickleious.

[George Pazin]

"I think if you asked me today who's the best golf designer, it's Jack Nicklaus," says Player, 71. "Why? Because he was a hacker, believe it or not, at one stage in his life. Then he became a reasonable player, then a better player, then the best player in the world.

"So he could look at a golf course from all different angles, whereas no other golf architect who's a 15 handicap can ever possibly do that. All of the players who are designing now have that background. I think it's great that they are all getting into it. Golf is the winner here."

Could being the operative word - it's up to each to decide if he does.

And Jack was never a hacker. No way. A beginner, certainly, but never a hacker. He plays a game with which we're not familiar, and I play a game I guarantee you with which he's not familiar.

[Steve Okula]

And Jack was never a hacker. No way. A beginner, certainly, but never a hacker.

How could a beginner be anything but a hacker? Was Nicklaus born with the ability to hit 300 yard drives with 1970 equipment? But then Player's quote doesn't make sense anyway, because everyone who ever played the game started as a poor golfer and gradually improved, so Jack wouldn't have any insight to the average golfer that other pro's don't.

By the way, I have it on good authority that Fazio does watch this site, and it's possible that he was referring to it when he says "critics".

[John Kavanaugh]

And Jack was never a hacker. No way. A beginner, certainly, but never a hacker.

How could a beginner be anything but a hacker? Was Nicklaus born with the ability to hit 300 yard drives with 1970 equipment? But then Player's quote doesn't make sense anyway, because everyone who ever played the game started as a poor golfer and gradually improved, so Jack wouldn't have any insight to the average golfer that other pro's don't.

By the way, I have it on good authority that Fazio does watch this site, and it's possible that he was referring to it when he says "critics".

Nicklaus could shoot par before he had pubes.  I would never call a kid playing tee ball a hack.

[George Pazin]

For once I agree with Barney wholeheartedly.

There are plenty of beginners who are never hackers. I know a few personally, I'm sure everyone on this site does, and I'm sure at least a few guys on this site were never hackers.

[Tom Huckaby]

I'd agree that it's hard to believe Nicklaus was ever a hacker.  Beginner, yes.  Hacker, no.

But let's not get too carried away with this, George.

There are plenty of us who carry decent indices now who most definitely were hackers at one point in our golf lives, and I don't mean beginners.  The golf learning curve is not typically a sharp one.  Nicklaus and those like him are the exception, not the rule.

Right?

[George Pazin]

Where did I ever say or even imply otherwise?

[John Kavanaugh]

Nicklaus: Overcoming a mild case of polio as a child, he took up golf at the age of ten, shooting 51 for his first nine holes. At 13, he broke 70. He won the first of five straight[3] Ohio State Junior titles at the age of twelve. He won the Ohio State Open in 1956 at age 16, competing against professionals.  One bad round to start does not make you a hack.

[JESII]

"Bad round" hell, I bet he shot 38 on the back nine that day...

[Mark Bourgeois]

So Gary's saying Nicklaus can see a course as though he were 10 years old? Well, he's known for having a good memory.

[Sean Leary]

So Gary's saying Nicklaus can see a course as though he were 10 years old? Well, he's known for having a good memory.

finest memory of it's kind.

[John Kavanaugh]

Really wierd article about Nicklaus: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_2004_April/ai_114423295

[Tom Huckaby]

Where did I ever say or even imply otherwise?

Well then I guess you didn't.  Just hearkening back to some previous discussions.... so never mind.

 

[Matt_Cohn]

Jack Nicklaus sold insurance?

[Tony Ristola]

Quote 1
7 courses under construction...eight in the planning stages...and then...At the end of the day, my name is on the course, so you bet I'm going to be involved in every aspect. This is a way I can … build something that will last long after I'm gone."

Pass the bucket.

QUOTE 2
The new architects didn't enter the industry solo. Each is associated with experts who understand how to design, construct and put together courses. Els, for instance, worked with Nicklaus' design team before branching out on his own. Woods hired Beau Welling, who worked with Fazio, to help with the Dubailand project. Welling now has his own company.

Then why don't the real designers get credit with the player?

Instead of Palm Beach they should set up shop in Amsterdam's Red Light District.

[Tom_Doak]

That wasn't really an article about golf course architecture.  It was just what the title promised:

"Golf stars cash in by designing courses."

[Edward Coombes]

I agree Tom and so many the mainstream golf fan/player will still not associate the names Doak, Coore-Crenshaw, Phillips, Crafter et al with great golf course architecture and sadly may never truly understand how good it can get.

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