Golf's actual beginnings.

[Doug Ralston]

Various references to 'The Old Course' has recently got me interested in the actually gestation of golf. I know St Andrews was supposed to have been extant since the 1300's. But what is known of it's actual beginnings? Is there any idea who? What was it like origionally?

I am certain there is a book about this, and about as certain that the authorities here can direct me. Ideas?

Doug

PS: Do you know Tolkien's history of golf's beginnings?

[Adam Clayman]

Doesn't Judge Smails set the record str8?

The Danes played a game called Gawf. The king outlawed it because the soldiers would rather bat their ball than fight the enemy.

[Phil_the_Author]

Ahhh, John Ronald Ruell & his nasty hobbitses....

[Rich Goodale]

Nobody knows, Doug.

Stick and ball games have been played for hundreds (if not thousands) of years.  They are as natural to the human race as night putting.  How, when and where they evolved into the game of golf is mostly sepculation.  An interesting book to read is "A Swing Through Time" by Loive M. Geddes, which if full of anedoctal evidence of golf in Scotland from 1457 to 1743.

[Doug Ralston]

Thank you Mr Goodale;

I shall search for that.

A question for you. Is you name pronounced [goo-dale] or [good-ale  ]?

" ........ Bandobras Took .......... knocked Goblin King Golfimbal's head off with a club, and it rolled across the field and fell down a hole; thereby winning the war and inventing the game of golf at the same time." Trying to remember the quote without reference, sorry. DR

My curiosity of golf's origions comes from an idea about what golf courses were 'intended' to be in the beginning. Did they have greens immeadiately? When did the fairway come into being?  I suspect they ascertained a hole, a starting point, and tried to hit their ball as few times as possible to get in. The rest are ALL modifications of origional intent.

They certainly did NOT start by cutting down all the trees! Probably, it was played in a relatively open area [field?], but if trees were there, they were obstacles to be overcome. You could play around them. Perhaps even hit over them. But try not to hit them, as your total number of hits between start and hole would likely increase.

That being the likely case, arguements of the value of certain types of design vrs others is a process of relative worth to those involved, WITHOUT ABSOLUTE IMPERATIVES, except the hole and the starting point.

And I think THAT is a great starting point for the debate about what one percieves as a great course. We can state, and try to sell, preferences; but need to see that ideas do not represent immutable reality [dogma].

And if, while playing our favorite game, you should spy a tree between you and your goal, try not to hit it with you golf ball. The consequences could be drastic for next week's food budget!

Doug

PS: If you could not tell, Doug happens to think trees are a legitimate and worthwhile hazard in some designs. Another question, then: Is it called dendraphilia? I'll have to look that one up too.

[Rich Goodale]

Doug

It's GOOD-ale, but most people seem to want to pronounce it in a seemingly infinite number of irritating ways, such as......good-ALL (hard of hearing), or Grail (nearly deaf), or gu-DAH-li (Italianate tendency).  Just one of the many burdens which I must bear.........

Rich (pronounced RHIC)

[Matthew Hunt]

I'll do a wee game and see if yous come to the same conclusion as me. Search 'Shinty' and 'Poc Fada'.

Hints;

Look at the Shinty Bats, Wat do the look like?

Shinty is a scottish field game.!

Hurling and Shinty were orriganly the same game!

What happens if one plays Poc Fada with Shintys?

 

[Doug Ralston]

Matthew;

Your conclusion is obvious. The Northern Brits are obsessed with batting balls around with long sticks. Doubtless one day some cleverer than average Scotsman [ ] accidently lost one down a varmit hole, and miraculous inspiration occured.

Right?

Mr Good Ale;

You are likely decended from taverners. One generation hit upon an exceptional brewing formula, the neighbors begans speaking of your family business widely, and ......voila!

Doug

[Joe Hancock]

Doug,

I'm interested in the explanation of my name, please.....

Joe

[Doug Ralston]

Joe;

Joe, or Jo, means man of endearment.

I will not even touch the other one, for fear of summary expulsion  .

Doug

[Ken Moum]

Various references to 'The Old Course' has recently got me interested in the actually gestation of golf. I know St Andrews was supposed to have been extant since the 1300's. But what is known of it's actual beginnings? Is there any idea who? What was it like origionally?

I am certain there is a book about this, and about as certain that the authorities here can direct me. Ideas?

Doug

PS: Do you know Tolkien's history of golf's beginnings?

Browning's History of Golf from the Classics of Golf is my favorite... But then I haven't read much else..  

It's encouraging that H.W. Wind agreed... http://shop.classicsofgolf.com/servlet/-strse-321/A-History-of-Golf/Detail

Anyway, Browning makes the points that other stick-and-ball games mentioned lack the hole in the ground, and the unique playing fields we see in golf.

That was good enough for me.

[G Jones]

slightly off topic, but since you were talking about how did fairways emerge... well i don't know this but bunkers were developed from places where sheep and other livestock dug holes in the sand dunes of links land to shelter from the elements. Once the grass was gone the sand was scraped out to create a hole by the animal, and since animals would return to the same shelters you had these "bunkers" all over the place. Eventually these were formalised into bunkers as the concept that we know today.

Also: tees used to be just a bucket of sand on the previous green. you'd make a little pyramid of sand right by the previous hole in the ground, put the ball on top, and play up the next hole.

I would imagine fairways developed both where gorse bushes were cleared to allow for play, and where people played regularly (they'd play to areas of shorter grass, and regular play would trample grass shorter too).

All of these things, once starting to develop, would i imagine have led to the stylised forms we know today.

[Alfie]

Doug,

I doubt if you'll find much better refs to the origins of golf than the first chapters of Stirk & Henderson's - Golf in the Making. David Stirk's later edition - Golf, History & Tradition is another worth reading.

As someone already said - much of the really early golf history is based on conjecture ?

Alfie.

[Forrest Richardson]

Doug — If you have Routing the Golf Course it contains a very good description of the origins of golf, comparing the game to other games, etc.  My conclusion was that golf was originated by whoever can lay claim to "golf courses". So far, that is with the Scots. The Dutch can lay claim to no courses, only hockey-like games on ice and occasionally along country roads. Clubs? Yes, the Vikings are thought to have left clubs (like golf clubs) along the shores of Scotland in the 1200s...but, again, it was the Scots who developed the idea of individual clubs, an assigned ball, and the hole as a target.

[TEPaul]

Nobody knows except the Chinese and they aren't talking. But a piece of Chinese artwork did show up recently from the 13th century that looked a whole lot more than just coincidentally like golf.

The interesting thing about that Chinese artwork that looked remarkably like golf is women were playing.

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

Doug,

See these articles on a possible asian origin of golf :

http://www.golf-information.info/asian-origin-of-golf.html

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=46872006







 

[Forrest Richardson]

I had a fortune cookie last night and the fortune read: "Golf was not invented by the Chinese."