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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« on: March 16, 2007, 02:05:31 AM »
Having played the Upper(Fazio) course today, and previously played the Lower (Mickelson's first archie effort), how did the Upper end up ranked higher in Golfweek?  Is there a possibility that raters got them mixed up?  I would venture that the Upper has the best natural golf terrain in the greater Phoenix area.  Unfortunatley, Fazio saw fit to move a tremendous amount of sandy dirt. Mickelson, working with a lesser piece of land moved very little dirt and did a very good job of working with the terrain.  The Upper had an opportunity to rival the original desert course a couple miles up the street, but achieved only an upgrade on Estancia and Grayhawk.  There's even a lake and non-native tree plantings. And of course, angles and strategy are not a part of the design.  So what am I missing that makes the Upper ranked higher than the Lower?  Is it too much to judge them against Desert Forrest( a true masterpiece--Carl Olsen has the fairways now shaped to follow the natural contours,--he does an incredible job)?  When I play desert golf, this course is my gold standard.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 07:42:02 AM »
Robert - that was a head scratcher to me too.  I agree completely with your assessment.  JC

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 01:49:43 AM »
For those who profess a dislike of desert golf, the Lower course would be a welcome pleasure.  Shots that miss the amply wide fairways will be penalized.  However, the penalties are less severe than missing the narrow fairways of Royal County Down!  In most instances, there is an opportunity for recovery.  Like ice plant, sometimes an unplayable lie drop is a very smart play.  Quite a few holes allow the bump and run.  The Upper was playing fairly firm on Thurs. and it would be safe to assume that the Lower also played firm and fast.  The high handicap player can putt from a distance off the green.  The greens have contour, but nothing that leaves you wondering "what the hell was Fazio thinking with this one?"  In essence, the greens feel as though they belong.  There is one out of place green complex, a risk/reward par five on the front, but it can be easily modified by softening the fallaway slope.  Those with an open mind should find this a very fun course.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 08:30:12 AM »
Robert:

Your mistake must be in assuming that the raters have open minds.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 09:20:42 AM »
Robert,

I haven't played the Upper yet, but the Lower does feature tremendous green complexes and is really a challenge for the low-handicapper while still being very playable otherwise.  It does occupy the flatter portion of the property so I'm sure it is lacking the visual impact and drama of the Upper, but I'd be surprised to find the Upper the better of the two based on what I saw during construction.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 09:17:10 PM »
I have no doubt that it must have been the wakeup moment during a nightmare to see the construction on the Upper course.  This could have been a very special course.  There are quite a few dramatic rock formations that could have been integrated into the routing without seeming contrived.  Fazio did utilize the rocks in teeing grounds to great affect.  There really was very little need to move much soil, it lies on supperb golf terrain.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 02:52:14 PM »
I heard some talk that the club was considering rebuilding the Fazio course.  

I've talked about it a number of times but it should be repeated that Bill Coore (who lives across the street) thought it was the best piece of property he has has seen in the desert for a golf course.

The overrating of the Fazio course just shows that you put the Fazio name on a golf course and raters will come and rate it high.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 03:11:36 PM »
I have no doubt that it must have been the wakeup moment during a nightmare to see the construction on the Upper course.  This could have been a very special course.  There are quite a few dramatic rock formations that could have been integrated into the routing without seeming contrived.  Fazio did utilize the rocks in teeing grounds to great affect.  There really was very little need to move much soil, it lies on supperb golf terrain.

Bob,

I was trying to be subtle and fair-minded but I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on nor the need for it.  Nice to see you knew what I was alluding to.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 06:33:39 AM »
Joel - the Fazio "Upper" course was closed a year or two after it opened for about 8 months and redone.  It re-opened last year.  JC

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whisper Rock--backwards ratings
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 08:48:14 AM »
Joel - the Fazio "Upper" course was closed a year or two after it opened for about 8 months and redone.  It re-opened last year.  JC

did Fazio do the changes  Jonathan?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!