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Carlyle Rood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2006, 10:40:00 AM »
I think this can and should be accomplished at only public courses..or semi-private.  

Wow!  What a remarkable statement.  I'm trying to recall my perspective of golf course architecture BEFORE I played Merion, Pine Valley, and Cypress Point.  They've all made such a tremendous impression on me.  I can't imagine deliberately excluding any of them from consideration.

That being said, BEFORE YOU VISIT ANY CLASSIC OR NOTEWORTHY DESIGN:

a. Purchase a digital camera that allows you to take high-quality photographs AND still fit within your pocket.

b. Purchase extra memory for that camera so that you may take a number of photographs quickly.  You don't want to waste time examining the photos after you've taken them to see whether they're worth keeping.

c. Call the club you're visiting and make sure it's permitted to take personal photographs of their golf course.  I didn't follow this advice once and unintentionally embarassed my host.  It's more important to be a grateful and appreciative guest than to accumulate photos.

d. Walk to the front of the tees to take a photo of a fairway.  There's no point monopolizing your photograph with that part of the ground plane.  Tees are uncomplicated.  They're flat.  Instead, focus on the more fascinating part.

e. Keep spare batteries and a spare memory card for your camera in your golf bag.

f. Read everything you can about the golf course before you visit.  Books and historic photographs can acquaint you with parts of the golf course you would overlook ordinarily.

Here are some good and BAD examples of photographs I've taken:


BAD EXAMPLE: A classic Colt/Alison design at Sea Island.  Unfortunately, the only thing you see clearly is the tee box. This is the 13th (formerly 4th of 9) of the Seaside course.


BETTER EXAMPLE: By walking to the front of the tee box, I fill up the photograph with the part of the hole we're interested in.  This is the 12th at Royal Birkdale.



EXCEPTION: Taking photos from the green back to the tee are rarely fruitful; however, there are exceptions.  This is the 13th at Atlanta Country Club.



BAD EXAMPLE: Here's a photograph I should have taken from the green looking back to the tee.  This is the 4th at Spyglass Hill.



GOOD EXAMPLE: This is a photo I never would have taken.  Fortunately, when researching Cypress Point, I saw a similar photo from the same vantage point in a book I read and made a special effort to recreate it.  This is the 16th hole.


BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2006, 10:41:48 AM »
Tom MacW --

An odd list. The youngest is ANGC, 1933. Nothing built since then is a must see for a young archie? Hmmmm.

Bob

Glenn Spencer

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2006, 12:15:21 PM »
I prefer all my golf pictures to be from green to tee. I thought this was standard practice.

Jim Nugent

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2006, 12:48:44 PM »
Unsolicited plug:

Carlyle has a site with fantastic photo tours of some of the world's best courses.  If you haven't seen it, here is a link:

http://www.golfarch.com/default.asp, then click on "Golf Architecture"


B_Smith

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2006, 12:50:23 PM »
I must humbly submit that Camargo is a must see for any student of golf architecture.  Maybe I'm fortunate because I get to see it all the time but it is not only God's country, it is a classic.  In this election season, as Ohio goes, so goes the nation, one must see our golf courses..  Camargo is truly Raynor restored and incorporates all the templates on rolling farmland as they were meant to be played.  

T_MacWood

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2006, 12:58:50 PM »
Bob
I don't know if they limited themselves to Golden Age courses or not. I don't think they did. Its a good list none the less.

No Pine Valley, no Cypress Point, no Pebble Beach, it appears they did not include courses on spectacular sites. Their architectural examples are courses built on ordinary to good sites.

If I were to add a modern course I'd add The Golf Club.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2006, 12:59:25 PM by Tom MacWood »

Glenn Spencer

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2006, 01:43:28 PM »
You could learn all that you needed to in North Central Ohio, just go play Granville and Longaberger.

Glenn Spencer

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2006, 01:45:49 PM »
I must humbly submit that Camargo is a must see for any student of golf architecture.  Maybe I'm fortunate because I get to see it all the time but it is not only God's country, it is a classic.  In this election season, as Ohio goes, so goes the nation, one must see our golf courses..  Camargo is truly Raynor restored and incorporates all the templates on rolling farmland as they were meant to be played.  

I like Camargo as much as the next guy, although it is  for different reasons, but God's Country? I think that is a little strong for Indian Hill, Ohio.

Carlyle Rood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2006, 02:20:20 PM »
I prefer all my golf pictures to be from green to tee. I thought this was standard practice.

Sometimes a green-to-tee shot is preferred; but, usually most of the bunkers aren't visible and the green's proportion is misleading.

I prefer golf photos in "context;" that is, photos taken from points most likely (or most desirable) to be encountered while playing the golf course.

Phil_the_Author

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2006, 02:32:04 PM »
Glen,

You stated that, "I prefer all my golf pictures to be from green to tee. I thought this was standard practice."

Now you may find this esthetically pleasing, but a student of golf course architecture will want to see photographs of holes from a different view, that is from the design perspective of the architect.

An example, Tillinghast. His philospohy of design was that he would roughly locate teeing grounds and green areas and then design the hole from the perspective of the green backward starting with the "entrance to the green."

He considered this area as of equal in importance as the green complex itself as he believed thatshots should enter the green from the location that was most desirable for teh challenge that he was creating. He would then adjust the teeing ground to reward a shot played to this area and punish those that did not.

On many of his courses you can get a better sense of the subtleties of the challenge by viewing it from the green backward because of this.

That is why it is important to understand the architect's design intent when studying the hole rather than standardizing the way one views it.


Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2006, 02:39:45 PM »
Cascades at AThe Homestead. I have rarely seen a consecutive 9 holes that is more impressive both visually and strategically than the front 9.
Regarding photography, there is vacation photography and there is forensic photography. Vacation provides the wow, forensic provides the strategy. Sometimes you can capture both, that is when it's really rewarding.
Examples;
Vacation:




Forensic: This shows the pain one can suffer for being left on this fabulous par 3.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2006, 02:44:30 PM »
I would try to pick the best public course available by the important architects of each era

McKenzie
McDonald
Raynor
Ross
Flynn

Modern
Dye
Jones
Coore and Crenshaw
Doak
Engh
Fazio
Nicklaus
+
The one timers who did great courses like:
Pebble Each
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2006, 06:01:58 PM »
Most of this advice is akin to a new cook being told to start with a souffle.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ian Andrew

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2006, 10:30:31 PM »
I wrote an article for Travel + Leisure Golf with this idea in mind. I was trying to cover a series of specific principles with 10 courses from all eras. I intentionally passed on the Old Course because it is the first course anyone should see.

Click on the link for each page and see if you think this makes a start:
( a hint, wait for the icon to appear in the bottom right and then use that to expand the page for easy reading)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/230/2341/1600/page1.0.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/230/2341/1600/page2.0.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/230/2341/1600/page3.0.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/230/2341/1600/page4.0.jpg
« Last Edit: October 31, 2006, 10:34:02 PM by Ian Andrew »

Brian Joines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2006, 01:11:10 AM »
I would try to pick the best public course available by the important architects of each era

McKenzie
McDonald
Raynor
Ross
Flynn

Modern
Dye
Jones
Coore and Crenshaw
Doak
Engh
Fazio
Nicklaus
+
The one timers who did great courses like:
Pebble Each


I threw this list together pretty much off the top of my head. I thought it would be a good place to start.

It's based off the idea Cary posted earlier to play the best courses by these architects. I included only public or university courses. What courses should be added or removed?


McKenzie
- Pasatiempo (CA)
- University of Michigan (MI)

McDonald
?

Raynor
?

Ross
- Pinehurst #2 (NC)
- French Lick (IN)
- Wilmington Golf Course (NC)

Flynn
- Homestead (Cascades)

Modern

Dye
- Harbour Town (SC)
- TPC Sawgrass (FL)
- Whistling Straights (WI)
- Blackwolf Run (River) (WI)
- Ocean Course at Kiawah (SC)

Jones
- Dunes Golf and Beach Club (SC)
- Spyglass Hill (CA)

Coore and Crenshaw
- Cuscowilla (GA)
- Kapalua (Plantation) (HI)
- Bandon Trails (OR)

Doak
- Pacific Dunes (OR)
- The Rawls Course at TTU (TX)
- High Pointe (MI)

Engh
- Fossil Trace (CO)
- Tullymore (MI)
- Redlands Mesa (CO)

Fazio
- World Woods (Pine Barrens) (FL)
- Karsten Creek (OK)
- Shadow Creek (NV)

Nicklaus
- Cabo del Sol (MEX)
????

Other Courses of Note:
- Bethpage Black (NY)
- Pebble Beach (CA)
- Bandon Dunes (OR)
- Tobacco Road (NC)
- Lawsonia Links (WI)
- Arcadia Bluffs (MI)
- Wild Horse (NE)
- Greywalls (MI)


PS. Notice how few of these sources have greens fees under $150. Yikes

Andy Troeger

Re:What courses are "must-plays" for a student of architecture.
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2006, 03:20:34 PM »
Brian,
   If you're looking for some options that won't break the bank...these have been mentioned on here before but they're all really good courses that can be played for a reasonable amount.

In Indiana,

By Tim Liddy: Rock Hollow, Sultan's Run, The Fort, and Trophy Club. I've played the first three...all fantastic.

In New Mexico,
Paa Ko Ridge and Black Mesa.

I agree with Tullymore in Michigan. Angels Crossing too.

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