[Adam_F_Collins]

How much length should a designer expect from a golfer when designing "white tee" strategies?

[A.G._Crockett]

Sean,
I think that is a good number.  When I see a course for the first time, I generally look for tees in the 6500 to 6700 yd. range.  Anything above that is a tough slog for the average golfer.  

The low end is much harder to determine, I think.  That depends so much on the particular course.

[A.G._Crockett]

Sean,
These yardages assume a par 72.  Someone here once said that a course will play 250 yds. above the posted yardage for each stroke that the par is below 72.  Not exact, of course, but a useful way to think about it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

AFC,

One must view the forward tees in the context of the beginer as well as the "average" golfer.

Here's where softening of the features can be achieved by changing the angle of attack for that level of golfer.

If the golf course doesn't have that luxury, than carry must be viewed in the context of the purpose of the golf course.

One would view Pine Valley differently than the local muni.

I think Ross and others addressed and answered your question when they created and positioned top shot bunkers.

[A.G._Crockett]

Patrick,
At the risk of exposing my lack of knowledge, what is a "top shot bunker"?  If I've heard the term before, I've forgotten it.  
Thanks in advance.

[John_Cullum]

6500 is too much yardage for most high handicappers, and 6700 yards is extreme for a 18 handicap. "White tees" need to be down around 6200.

[A.G._Crockett]

6500 is too much yardage for most high handicappers, and 6700 yards is extreme for a 18 handicap. "White tees" need to be down around 6200.

John,
I agree with you about whether or not yadages above 6500 are appropriate for 18 handicaps, but for most daily fee and resort courses, if their white tees are 6200 yds., too many high handicappers will ignore them and head back farther to tees that they are incapable of handling.
All other things equal (par 72, elevation changes, etc.) I'd think it would be hard to have just 3 sets of tees and have the middle  at 6200 unless the course topped out at 6600 or so.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I think "top shot bunker" refers to bunkers very short off the tee - maybe 100-150 yards.  I expect the name comes from topping a shot into the bunker these days though that wasn't necessarily the case in days gone by.  A better name for these short bunkers should be invented!

Tillie called them DHs Duffers Headaches as they did not effect good golfers at all, just weak golfers.  He got rid of these as much as possible - Philip Young does a good job describing this in his bio on Tillie.

[Brent Hutto]

6500 is too much yardage for most high handicappers, and 6700 yards is extreme for a 18 handicap. "White tees" need to be down around 6200.

Yeah, tell me about it. My index is 19.5 (or at least it was before yesterday) and for our club championship, nominally played from the "White" tees at 6,270 yards, they had moved a bunch of them back to stretch the course to somewhere in the 6,500-6,600 range.

Then it rained 3+ inches on Saturday so we played 36 holes of stroke play on Sunday with most shots plugging in the fairway. I was completely out of my element with my 185-190 carry distance tee shots. The shortest Par 3 was 151 into the wind and there were several Par 4's where I hit driver and 5-wood and still couldn't reach the green with a wedge. Only a couple of the Par 5's were reachable with driver, 5-wood, 5-wood. Over the 36 holes I didn't hit a single approach shot (in regulation) with an iron. That was the longest 11-1/2 hours I've ever spent on a golf course.

I'd say for the prototypical bogey golfer having "White" or member's tees around 6,200 yards is appropriate on a typical wet/green US course. Conversely, I didn't find playing Deal or Littlestone at 6,400-ish to feel long at all. In fact, I didn't carry a driver for my rounds at Deal opting for hitting it straight with my 3-wood (175 yard typical carry distance).

[Garland Bayley]

I would caution everyone from stereotyping bogey or high handicap golfers as short hitters. There is far more variation there than any stereotype can cover.

I referred to comments stemming from that stereotype on another thread as snobbish. I did not mean to indicate the writers were snobs, just that the comments they made sounded snobbish.

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