[pete doyle]

I do not understand why The Country Club of Farifiled does not get more respect.  It is as fine a course as I have played.  The 6th is as tough a par 4 as you can have followed by the 7th which is a mastery of a front to back sloped green followed by the prettiest tee box on the 8th hole.

It is a classic links style with the front 9 around the exterior of the course which is surrounded on 3 sides by water.  Views of Southport harbor and Long Island sound frame this treasure of a 6,600 yard gem.  The wind picks up here and it is a 3-4 club wind that changes the course significantly.

[SPDB]

my sense is it is because of the too many cooks in the kitchen problem that plagues a lot of course like these. By
my count i think it has been redesigned by Tillie, RTJ, Jr., and Cornish.

But despite that (or maybe -gasp- because of it) it is a terrific
course, and flows very nicely. I tend to agree with you on
your assessment.

[snowman]

CC of F is a New England gem and clearly a Raynor course that should be mentioned in the same breath as Fishers Island, Yeaman's Hall and Fishers Island.  The 9th hole is a personal favorite and the second best Redan in the East (7th at Shinnecock is #1).

Everyone who I talk to raves about the course and ranks it among the best in the country.  So here is the question for the group:

Can a private club "hide" their course from the big course rankings operated by the magazines?

or

Its impossible to keep all the reviewers away and therefore the best courses end up on the lists whether the membership wants the attention or not.

Very interested in hearing everyone's opinion.

[mike_malone]

Snowman
   There is a course in Philly area that does not show up on any lists of best in area ,but i am certain  it would.I think they want it that way.
  I will not give it's name since i assume they do not want any publicity

[J_Olsen]

CCF suffers in the rankings for a variety of reasons. 1. Access is very difficult to obtain. 2. The course is not very testing. 3. The problem of the bastard pedigree.   Fun, but not awe inspiring.

[Scott S]

I agree with the original post. Although, it is in the top 100 classical. Tough opener with OB right and garbage left. I do not recall RTJ, jr doing work there. Tillie was limited as was Cornish. A photo of the 4th appears on the back cover of one of the Tilly books. Interesting test when the wind is up. I believe George Bahto is involved with master plan ren/restoration work.

[Scott S]

I agree with the original post. Although, it is in the top 100 classical. Tough opener with OB right and garbage left. I do not recall RTJ, jr doing work there. Tillie was limited as was Cornish. A photo of the 4th appears on the back cover of one of the Tilly books. Interesting test when the wind is up. I believe George Bahto is involved with master plan ren/restoration work.

[ChipOat]

Snowman:

First, #7 at Shinnecock is a better Redan than #4 at National??  Sorry - I can't buy that, AT ALL.  I might even turn Pat Mucci loose on you over that one.

Second, you referred to "second best Redan in the East".  Are there others located elsewhere in the US of A that are, in your view, even better?  The Midwest or South??

I'm intrigued - please explain.

[SPDB]

i think it also may suffer from a "reverse Cypress" complex, in that the most stunning holes are all complete by the time you make the turn. The back nine moves throughout the interior. I think Spyglass suffers from the same sort of problem, and, accordingly, doesn't get the credit it probably deserves.

I'll wait until (hopefully) George Bahto edifies us all, but I believe my recollection is that RTJ re-routed the course, so the nines became returning. This may suggest that at one time, the waterfront holes were not always limited to the frontside.

[snowman]

Chipoat,

The redan #4 on NGLA is spectacular and should not be overlooked.  Thanks for reminding me.

I said best in the east only because that is where I have played the most golf courses.  I do not know of a Redan anywhere in the country as good as the two in Southampton, however, I did not want to assume first hand knowledge of courses in other regions of the country without having played them.  Hope that is clear.

What do you think about courses "hiding out" and avoiding the top 100 lists?

[rpurd]

CC of Fairfield gets plenty of respect.  It is one of the top 3 courses in the state (can debate with Stanwich, Woodway, Yale and Brooklawn).  It is VERY private....so not too many can get on it.  It probably has the best location of any course in the state and when the wind is up can be quite a challenge.

[JohnV]

At this year's US Mid-Am, the Committee had our own tournament at CC of Fairfield the day before the championship began.  To a man, everyone loved it.  Enough of us are raters that it might see a little jump in the next couple of rankings.  I haven't seen the other redans in question personally but the one there is all I could want.  Especially since it was my 18th hole.

I would put Round Hill in that discussion of the best in CT by the way.  Another gem that doesn't get enough recognition.

[brad_miller]

JohnV, I also like Round Hill a lot, great routing around property, good mix of long and short par 4's, #14 the long dog leg right is one of the best around, and great topography, rarely a level lie.

Thought Doak was doing master plan at CCof Fairfield, it is listed on his web site

[George Bahto]

Tom Doak's company is doing the masterplan and work at CCF as far as I know - not me - I think Bruce Hepner is doing it.

As far as the modifications to the course:

Tillie did the short hole over - don't know why because I have an aerial of Raynor's Short - it was spectacular. Now Tillie green is collapsing on the front right.

RTJ offered a rendition -  a bit of re-routing (I have a version of it) - because of the new location of the clubhouse. He did not do any work there. Much of the work recommended by RTJ was done in house by the long time super - who was quite good (although they once had a great Alps out in the weeds he killed). The basic problem was that the 18th was too far from the new clubhouse.

I spoke to Geoff Cornish about what he did there and although many think he did a lot, all he did was reset the 10th hole (to the detriment of a great Biarritz, the green of which still is on the 10th fairway about 150-yards from the green.

No one else, to my knowledge, did anything else to the course.

As I said, most of the work was done by the old super - I've seen his drawings. Pat Sisk recent left there as supe and went to Milwaukee CC - a good friend.

The short hole over the water on the back nine didn't come out too good because the green was originally approached from a different direction.

Raynor presented a great course to Oliver Gould Jennings - the driving forse behind the founding of the club and course. He rejected a lot of what Seth presented as being "too hard" for "our type membership" and it had to be watered down. I have a copy of the original - there was even a Cape hole out in the middle of the lagoon - wow!

I think the lower rankings are due to a lot of bastardization - yes.

The 8th hole in its original config had a optional fairway until the supe move the tee to its present location - it's still a very stong hole.

A lot could be done to that course.

[JohnV]

George, thanks for the info.  I kept wondering where the Biarittz was, now I remember my ball scurrying through that area on my second on the 10th.  I bet it was awesome, what a shame.

[Tom Doak]

Bruce Hepner is indeed doing the master plan work there, although I don't think they have made many changes yet.  They are certainly not going to restore it entirely to Raynor's plan ... they like what they have, so they're not going to change much.

I haven't been there in 15+ years.  It's a good course, although I rated it fairly low in The Confidential Guide.  IMHO, we consult at five other Raynor courses that are head and shoulders better.

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