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John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« on: July 14, 2006, 02:26:28 PM »
I had the opportunity to play this golf course yesterday with a friend of mine who is a member.  

It is a "Jack Nicklaus Signature Course" and was opened (I believe) a couple of years ago.  

My comments/observations from my very much untrained eye:

1.  Like all of the other Jack Nicklaus courses I've played the course was "lush."  The turf in the fairways and rough was thick.  The fairway turf seemed "lose" -- easy to take divots and they came out cleanly.  Very very few bare spots, if any.  The Indianapolis area had tons of rain in the last couple of days so take that with a grain of salt.  
2.  There were a number of shots with facing bunkers.  It **looked** like it was impossibly to carry a particular bunker, or that the pin was tucked right over it, but when you got up to the green there was plenty of room available and actually the bunker was really not in play.
3.  Off of every non-par three tee there were "aiming spots."  They could have been bunkers, or boulders, or trees but there were definitely spots to aim at for your line off the tee.
4.  All but one of the par threes had water in play.  Two of them were doglog right so that faders could start the ball over the land and bring it back to the green.  The other was a dogleg left for those who draw the ball.
5.  In general the course was set up to favor faders.  Lots of dog legs right or trouble on the left side.  The conservative play was almost always a fade while the agressive plays were dead straight balls or draws.  I really liked this (considering I fade the ball).  For higher handicap players the course was very playable but there was enough stategy for better players to challenge them as well.  

I don't know what the cost to join the club is but my buddy got a pretty good deal.  He's definitely NOT Mr. Moneybags and it was only slightly more expensive than his old course -- Harbor Trees (a Pete Dye design) in Noblesville.

Link to the Sagamore web site:  http://www.thesagamoreclub.com
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jvdp

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2006, 02:40:40 PM »
Thanks for the report John. I've been waiting for the chance to get to play it, but haven't made the right friends yet, I guess. It has been a pretty wet spring and summer, so I would be surprised if any course in central Indiana is anything but lush.

How did the course fit in amongst the houses? What I've seen of the plans and photos of the course indicates to me that it may feel a bit tight in spots.

If you've played Harbour Trees, how would you compare the two? I like Harbour Trees, I think it's what I'd like in a private course - fairly undemanding off the tee but always a challenge around the greens.

John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2006, 03:07:53 PM »
I think the housing development will be absolutely terrible for the golf course.  Already they've marked the OB and in many cases, both off the tee and around the greens, it's very very close.  I was driving the ball well yesterday and did hit one tee ball OB left but it would have been OB on the first tee at St. Andrews..........

I would estimate that they are about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the way done building houses.  There are very few houses on the back nine and about 1/2 of the front is built.  I really dislike golf course housing developments and it made me sad to see all the survey stakes for the housing lots.  

I would say it's similar to Harbor Trees in the "open off the tee but demanding around the greens" aspect.  The greens were fairly small and there were a number of collection areas to grab wayward shots.  The shots off the tees will be more difficult for better players/longer hitters as the landing areas seemed to tighten.  I liked this course a lot better than Harbor Trees but I expect I'll be disappointed when they put the houses in.  

The greens had been punched recently but were mostly healed.  They were pretty fast and I can only imagine that they would be like lightning when they were dry.  

One more thing -- there seemed to be a real yardage disprepency between the different tees:

Pro:  7173 (75.2/139)
Champ:  6750 (73.0/135)
Member:  6285 (70.8/131)
Forward:  5203 (71.7/125)

It seemed like the Champ tees were too long but the Member tees were too short.  I ended up playing the Champ tees and did fine (except for a stupid brain dead 8 on #2).  
« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 03:10:43 PM by John Pflum Jr »
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jvdp

kevin

Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 03:41:39 PM »
JOHN and JOHN:

Since I assume you all are from IN, I must ask,  have you played Harrison Hills in Attica?????  Your thoughts.

My foursome are heading up there tomorrow.  I absolutley love the place especially the Langford holes.  Not especially long holes but I get excited when I see those old style bunkers.  

Chris_Clouser

Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2006, 03:47:43 PM »
John,

I wrote up a review of the course when it first opened/finished construction.  You can find it in the archives here if you know how to use the search tool.  The one thing I thought that held the course back was the continued use of the same style green complex with an angled green going one way or the other with a bunker on the inside corner.  

I thought the 8th, the only par three without water, was the best of the bunch, but could have been so much better if they would have used an original green design instead of repeating the same angled green that had been used all around the course.  Absolutely loved the bunkering short of the green.  When I first saw it I said, WOW! and was afraid to hit the shot.  When I got up to the green, I was mildly disappointed with what could have been.  

There was some variety throughout the round otherwise, but looking back, there were continued similarities throughout the routing.  The eleventh was a par three, but the terrain would have made for a great risk/reward par four by moving the tees back 100 yards.  At the time there was room to do this, whether it still has that room or not I don't know.  

12 looked great, but with the carry over the water and the center bunker in the same line, it almost took the agressive line out of play unless your ball doesn't run after it hits the ground.  

But to be honest, the first hole is a great opener that tells you what to expect on the way around.  I loved it.  The 2nd reminded me of Muirfield Village many years ago.  The 3rd was a good short par four.  The risk/reward on the 7th was nice.  The 15th (I think) had a great green setting.  

A lot of pluses about the course, but some lost opportunities I felt.  My recommendation, drive five miles up the road and play Purgatory.  I feel it is the better course of the two, for no other reason than the much better and much more fun green complexes.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 03:49:14 PM by Chris_Clouser »

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 04:22:47 PM »
Sorry kevin, I've not had the opportunity to play it.

John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Report: Sagamore GC Noblesville, IN
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 04:42:53 PM »
Kevin -- No I haven't played that course.  I'm actually in Cincinnati and make it up to Indy twice a month on business.

Chris -- I just dug up your review.  Excellent stuff, though as I said in my earlier post I'm really not qualified to express too strong an opinion.  

I really enjoyed #2 as well (except for finding that cursed green side bunker short and right.)  

I enjoyed the course from a player's perspective but I think the housing will really detract from it.
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jvdp

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