[Mark Leo]

Had the opportunity to play this wonderful course yesterday.  What a great test of golf.  As written in Ran's review, and for those who have had the chance to play it you really get the feeling that you have played two different courses, with the front open and "links-like" and the back tree-lined with significant elevation change.  I don't think this course gets enough attention, probably due to its lack of exposure.  The two par threes on the front are two of the best I've ever seen. Ironically, they are right next to each other on the far eastern edge of the course, playing in different directions. It's interestesting that while you are playing, the nines transition so well into each other, that its not until you finsh that you realize how different they are.
Got me thinking; are there any other courses of the classic architects where the nines are that "Jekyll-and Hyde" in character that work so well?
Just off the top on the modern side, Bandon trails transitions well into different landforms, but not  distinctly 9 and 9.

[TEPaul]

Actually Wyoming Valley is a bit that way even if it's not exactly one nine to the next.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mark, I played Somerset Hills two years ago with my 30 year old son.  After about 12 holes he declares, "This is the coolesst place I have ever been."  I agree it does not get the exposure it deserves.

[Steve Lapper]

Gentlemen,

    To borrow the philosophy from the majority of it's member's:

   "Somerset Hills desires NOT to get exposure!"

   Yes, the place is very, very special and the dichotomy of it's two nine's is quite unique, especially when measured against the remaining body of AWT's work. Remember they have been switched in playing order every 50yrs or so.

   As for the present neighboring par 3's, remember that shy of maybe Pine Valley, Merion, Shinnecock, Somerset Hills has a near perfectly balanced set. The "Redan(160-178yds)," the long "Dip(190-230yds)," the short and bucolicly beautiful "Despair(125-151yds)," and "Deception(160-172yds) are as good a set as they get.....certainly AWT's best!

    This is a course that can be played and played and enjoyed in nearly every condition and season. It might well be NJ's most sporty and fun among the state's top ten as well.

[Steve Lapper]

Mark

Did you find the features and routing of the second nine at SHCC up to the first?  I never seem to be able to not wish the nines were more equal in quality.

I don't get the big excite about #10-11 as many do due to the low lying ground being so different and soggy, then 15 and 17 are the only holes that I really find thrilling whilst the first nine has many more ...

..... leaves me wanting a bit.  Those that suggest SHCC over Plainfield as #2 in the state are all wet in my book.  Methinks they like the neighborhood better or something.

 

That said, SHCC one of the great ways to spend a day playing golf and having a drink, don't misunderstand my comments.  After all, I'm open minded enough that I prefer #8 to the redan.

Bill,

 I like the back over the front there. Granted #10 is little more than long par 4 (played as a par 5), but it rarely soggy as you suggest. Perhaps the base of #11 is prone to damp conditions (it does border the course's biggest pond), but the hole's strategy and green position is exceptional and always plays out to one of the toughest on the course.

 As much as I love SHCC, it doesn't deserve to ever displace Plainfield in any objective rating or evaluation(save for native beauty). PCC is a stern and continual test of every club, distance and deft touch. SHCC is nary a test of distance. It is, instead, quite the contrary, a shorter, sporty reward for the enthusiast who treasures a combination of beauty and shotmaking.

  How could you not like #13 and 14? They are wonderful holes easily superior to #3 and 6 on the front. #12 may well be the best little three par north of Clementon for that matter. As for your prefering #8 to #2.....I rest my case that you are psychotic and in need of cranial therapy

[Wayne Freeman]

Mark-  Somerset may be under the radar but it has always been rated very highly by all the major magazines.  I'm hoping to play there next spring--
    A couple of other courses that come to mind that are links on the front and more parkland on the back are Crystal Downs and Valhalla. And I've heard that Doak's High Point in Traverse City is set up much the same way.  

[Stu Grant]

I also had the opportunity to play SHCC this year and absolutely loved the experience.  After blowing my brains out at one of the latest penal and ridiculous courses in Ontario, what a treat it was to drive 9 hours and play Somerset Hills the very next day and be reminded of what a golf course should be.  It was so much fun to play this course.

SHCC would be an amazing place to be a member.  You'd hardly ever lose a golf ball and you'd never get bored given all of the interesting shots out there.

The course rating/slope/yardage from the Back Tees is only 72.2/132/6659.  Based on these numbers, would this be the "most playable" course in the USA Top 50?  I know Merion is also a short course by today's standards but I think its course rating/slope is 73.6/142 from the tips.        

[Matt_Ward]

Steve said, "This is a course that can be played and played and enjoyed in nearly every condition and season. It might well be NJ's most sporty and fun among the state's top ten as well.

You might want to take a good long look at the Banks Course at Forsgate now. The Charles Banks design often gets little attention because being in sexy Monroe Township isn't as tony as the Bernardsville address.

Have to say this -- clearly the address and the USGA connection doesn't hurt the club's position among those who sniff from cognac glasses as regularly as I do with Pepsi.

P.S. By the way -- I am a huge fan of the par-4 11th -- I see it as being one of the best mid-length holes we have in Jersey. The drive down the fairway and the interesting green never disappoint me.

On the flip side -- the par-3 12th is greatly overrated -- the setting is what drives the appeal -- do a comparison with the much heralded Plainfield as you suggested -- notably the par-3 11th and you can see what I am saying.

[wsmorrison]

Stu,

"I know Merion is also a short course by today's standards but I think its course rating/slope is 73.6/142 from the tips"

The rating from the back tees on the scorecard is 72.4 with a slope of 142, this at 6482 yards and a par of 70.  I have not seen the rating and slope from the way back championship tees that play more than 6900 yards.  Do you think that 73.6/142 is from these tees?  I would have guessed higher than that.

[Stu Grant]

Wayne,

The 142 slope that I was referring to is from the 6482-yard tees.  I couldn't find the rating/slope on the way back champ tees on a quick internet search.  
 

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Stu.  I don't rate or rank courses, but with the new back tees on 2,3,5,6,9 (to a much lesser degree),12,14,15 and 17, the course must be two or three shots harder and the slope 150 (an uniformed guess) or so, wouldn't you think?

[Steve Lapper]

Steve said, "This is a course that can be played and played and enjoyed in nearly every condition and season. It might well be NJ's most sporty and fun among the state's top ten as well.

You might want to take a good long look at the Banks Course at Forsgate now. The Charles Banks design often gets little attention because being in sexy Monroe Township isn't as tony as the Bernardsville address.

Have to say this -- clearly the address and the USGA connection doesn't hurt the club's position among those who sniff from cognac glasses as regularly as I do with Pepsi.

P.S. By the way -- I am a huge fan of the par-4 11th -- I see it as being one of the best mid-length holes we have in Jersey. The drive down the fairway and the interesting green never disappoint me.

On the flip side -- the par-3 12th is greatly overrated -- the setting is what drives the appeal -- do a comparison with the much heralded Plainfield as you suggested -- notably the par-3 11th and you can see what I am saying.

Matt,

  Before this thread is hijacked (as is the habit of some in this Treehouse) into a Merion discussion, it should be noted that SHCC and Forsgate are both good examples of sportiness regardless of location or toniness of address. They are, however, still sufficiently different in scale, size and nature. Little at Forsgate is as inherently beautiful or bucolic as SHCC and that does, like-it-or-not, count for something. Forsgate is a bigger course with longer par 4's and 5's than anything found in Bernardsville.

I can't agree with your comparison of #11 at Plainfield (a wonderful short one-shotter) to #12 at SHCC. SHCC wins out on the beauty end by a long measure and also does so on merit. An overcooked spinning wedge or 9 iron gets wet at SHCC and is an instant bogey or worse. At PCC, it's just the rough. Granted the green's tilt might be more severe at PCC, yet it's no picnic to be above either's hole and water still beats rough for penalty. Also the swirling winds off the pond on #12 are of greater significance and merit than any lightly-trapped breeze between the conifers at PCC. Play it in April or October and tell me differently.

Don't forget, I actually agree with you on balance on PCC deserving a higher rating/ranking/blah..blah.. than SHCC.

[ChipOat]

To answer Mark Leo's original question:

The front and back 9's at Easthampton are even more different than at Somerset Hills.  The front is kind of cramped (ran out of real estate) but excellent execution and the closest thing to Pine Valley you'll ever see outside PVGC its ownself.  The back is really good C&C on fairly flat terrain in a former potato field - looks nothing like it's front 9 sibling save for #18.

Tom Paul would likely back me up on that.

Now back to Somerset Hills.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

We agree to disagree here.

The 11th at Plainfield has an extremely small landing area that calls for the most grueling of control shots. Anything long, left or right -- or even short is FIGHTING to make a par.

Somerset's 12th gets plenty of non-design brownie points because of its location. Looks good -- but pales when strategic qualities are pondered.

Steve -- what is this jibberish that the 11th "might be more severe." C'mon Steve -- that's so obvious as to not merit a response.

I'm also holding my gut from laughter with the idea that swirling winds are blowing over the 12th at SH. Do you think the wind pattern there is at the same force as one faces with the 7th at PB ? Surely you jest partner.

Somerset Hills is a fine Tillinghast layout but too often the position of a course rests on who is playing there and what neighborhood it occupies. Forgate is off NJ Tpke 8A and gets little attention but I dare say the collective par-3's there are a match for any Garden State course with the possible exception of PV and Plainfield.

People should also look at Montclair GC (#2 & #4) and even Morris County in Convent Station for courses that have plenty of design muscle even if short by contemporary standards.

[Stu Grant]

For those who haven't played there (and also for those who have), here's pictures of the great par-3 set at Somerset:

#2 - REDAN, 175 yards


#8 - DIP, 230 yards


#12 - DESPAIR, 151 yards


#16 - DECEPTION, 170 yards


I was so fired up about the course that I played over my head and made par on all four of the par-3s, hitting 8I, driver (230 yds straight into the wind...missed the green by a mile left but got up and down), wedge, and 8I, respectively.  A pretty distinct set of short holes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The nines are different at SHCC because the land is different.

Why should there be continuity in the golf course when there's no continuity in the land supporting the nines ?

[Mark Leo]

Stu,
I , interestingly, had a very similar experience! Parred all of the 3's, and now I'm not embarassed to say I also hit driver on number 8, playing 240 into the wind from the very back tucked tee. Ended up pin high, twenty-five feet.  Especially interesting since the parallel #2 was an 8 iron at 174 yds.

[wsmorrison]

Stu,

Thank you for posting the pictures of the par 3s at Somerset Hills.  They look like a fine collection of holes though #8 seems the least interesting of the bunch by a fair margin.  I know I can't judge from the photo and it doesn't show the green surface at all, but the presentation and green surrounds don't seem nearly as interesting as the other par 3s.  Tillinghast's Redan style at SH is closer to that of Flynn than other examples I've seen with the steep rise to the green.

[Stu Grant]

Wayne,

You're right, the picture from 230 yards away doesn't tell much of the greenside story.  I took a picture of the 8th green complex from the left as I was pretty excited where my second shot ended up (just beyond the flag in the picture below) after a horrific drive.  On the tee, I was thinking about how easy it would be against the wind to spray the ball onto the road OB-right, so I subconciously overcompensated and pulled it 50 yards left.  What a player.  

[Steve Lapper]

Two important notes should be added to better understand Stu's pictures and the uniqueness of SHCC's par 3's:

1) The angle of Stu's phot is taken from just off the back of the #1 green. The tee shot angles is far more head-on and thus the slope of the Redan more apparent and steeply pitched from right-to-left. As for it being "closer to Flynn," that's probably not true as Tilly acknowledges seeing photos  from North Berwick and and drawings/sketches of McDonald's and Raynor's. The "steep rise" is more of a valley/swale rising to the greenside and the kicker isn't very pitched. NGLA's shares a siimlar landscape. Phillip Young would be a better expert of the hole's history.

2) The 8th's magic doesn't reveal it's magic until one steps onto the green and finds it a miniture Dolomite relief, full of subtle, but difficult to navigate, humps and bumps. It is a large green with no stretch of over three feet flat. It's mini-mounding makes it one of the most unique greens I've yet to ever see and the imposing 190+ tee shot demands a great deal from any player (Maybe that's the reason Matt likes it so much ).

[Tom Roewer]

Stu,

Thank you for posting the pictures of the par 3s at Somerset Hills.  They look like a fine collection of holes though #8 seems the least interesting of the bunch by a fair margin.  I know I can't judge from the photo and it doesn't show the green surface at all, but the presentation and green surrounds don't seem nearly as interesting as the other par 3s.  Tillinghast's Redan style at SH is closer to that of Flynn than other examples I've seen with the steep rise to the green.

I too like that REDAN.  Is it as downhill as it apppears?  #11 @ Mountain Lakeis the only other severely downhill that I know of.  It's kind of interesting that the fronting bunker is almost squared like @ .M.L.C.C.

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