[Brian Cenci]

Is Michigan the home for best public golf options in the U.S.?  

With looking at all the recent "lists" (not that I care what GD, Golfweek or GM think about what they think is better), I was wondering if others felt the same.  I'd put our top 15 up against anyone elses.  I've played a lot of other great public courses in other states and as far as overall depth of great public golf courses, I'm not sure there's a better state out there.  Now some my argue that other states have better top courses (Wisconsin w/ Whistling and Blackwolf Run, Oregon w/ Bandon, North Carolina w/ Pinehurst, Nevada w/ Shadow Creek, California w/ Pebble, Flordia w/ TPC and World Woods and South Carolina w/ Kiawah, Myrtle Beach and Harbor Town), I don't think they're as deep in quality as Michigan.  

Now, a small factor is cost.  Because after recent trips to Florida, Arizona and Nevada, a $100 course in most of those states is equal to like a $35/$40 course in Michigan.  Opinions?

My Personnal Michigan Public Top 15 (in no particular order):
*Arcadia Bluffs (would compliment the Bandon treo any day of the week)
*Greywalls (considered by many the best course in the state, regardless of public or not)
*Forest Dunes (glad to see it's finally getting some recognition, a truly great course and only $90 peak season)
*Eagle Eye (my "benchmark" course.  I consistently ask myself when I play courses throughout the US, would I rather have just payed $65 peak season and played Eagle Eye?  The answer is almost always, "Yes"!)
*Bay Harbor (good course in a great setting)
*Lakewood Shores - Gailes (has fallen in my personnal rankings the last few years, at its best condition wise a few years ago I considered as good or better then Arcadia Bluffs)
*Tullymore (good course, highly ranked in the latest GD poll...which, it was much overated...but still a top 100 public course any day of the week)
*Red Hawk (good course...solid)
*Black Lake (a bit overated in most publications, but I'm also not a huge Rees guy, still a solid public course that would be $175 in Arizona to play)
*Angel's Crossing (a "golfer's" golf course, could play there every day)
*Black Forest at Wilderness Valley (really enjoyed playing this course last year, another good Doak design)
*Shephard's Hollow (a bit overhyped in most publications, but never-the-less still a good course)
*Pilgrim's Run (solid solid course, well underated)
*High Pointe (still one of my favorites, as far as setup and shot values...it's second to none in the state)
*Boyne Highlands-Heather (haven't played it in 5/6 years but at the time was one of my favorite in the state)


-Brian

[Kalen Braley]

I think Utah could give Michigan a run for its money....

[Andy Ryall]

Having lived in the Detroit area for a couple of years, I would think that many states would be hardpressed to match its variety in terms of public/resort courses.  There are probably 6 or 7 distinct golf trip destinations within the Lower Peninsula alone that would be dominated be 4+ star courses.  

Traverse City
Treetops/Gaylord
Sunrise (Lakewood Resort/Elk Ridge/Black Lake)
East Lansing
Grand Rapids

Obviously, there is an extensive variety of top quality private clubs as well as mentioned previously.  

[Nathaniel Amrine]

Sean - couldn't agree with you more. The number of outstanding courses within the $25-$40 is remarkable. A few things always strike me about "Michigan Golf":

1) Most people associate Michigan with Detroit, but it would be impossible to make an argument that Detroit has the best golf in the state. Matter of fact, the greater Detroit area may be the region with the fewest "bang for your buck" golf courses.

2) While Northern Michigan gets all the "glitz and glam" there was a thread in the past few days commenting on the quality of dozens of West/South West Michigan courses. This only adds to the overall Michigan product.

[Doug Ralston]

http://www.migolfmagazine.com/features/Top50.html

That was my 1st intro to Michigan golf. From Cincy it is a ways, and we have only gotten to one course for lack of time/opportunity; it was #25 on the list. We found it beautiful and very pleasing to play. Decided if this was 25th best, we gotta get some of this state. Eagle Eye, Tullymore, Black Lake, Greywalls, and Timberstone is our ideal 5-day trip. Yes, I know Arcadia, Bay Harbor, and Forest Dunes, among others, are being bypassed, but that is a mostly economic decision.

There are simple so many courses up there we want that we will never run out of ideas. Yes, I doubt any other state has as many high quality publics as Michigan. Too bad about the short season, we would like some Winter specials at Arcadia, but that's silly  

Doug

[Andy Troeger]

I think the thing with Michigan is that there literally are probably 100 public courses that are worth playing with 95% of them priced at a reasonable rate.

Just in SW Michigan there are a handful of courses that are never mentioned here that are solid-good courses that would be thought of more highly in other states but are a tier down from the top group of public courses in Michigan--Lake Michigan Hills, Island Hills, Blackberry Patch, Whittaker Woods, etc.

I don't know if the golf itself is better than SC or CA, but the prices generally are. I do think the golf is better than FL or AZ personally, but I like the landscape of MI better than that in either other state. Plus most of the highly rated places in AZ are private when it comes down to it.

[Matt_Ward]

Brian:

Michigan has the sheer numbers of public courses -- but I can tell you that California and Colorado would do well in such a situation of best public layouts -- especially if limited to a top 10 or top 15. The Centennial State offers plenty of affordable options beyond the more expensive mountain located layouts.

[Doug Ralston]

And of course Kentucky ..... well Kentucky ....... ah, no, they can't compete like that.   Still some great courses there, though.

Doug

[ed_getka]

I think Utah could give Michigan a run for its money....

Kalen,
    Please provide some more info. I don't know of any courses in Utah that could crack the top 10-15 in Michigan.

[Kalen Braley]

Ed,

I have put them into 2 goups.  They are all really good courses in the same 25-40 price range.  The 1st section are what I would consider the top notch public offerings. As they are in Utah they are a lot less heard of. I have played a good deal of them and they are all interesting layouts.  Cirba might want to chime in on this one, he's probably played more of these than I have.

Top notch public courses:
Thanksgiving point
Talons Cove
South Mountain
Bountiful Ridge
The Hideout
Coral Canyon
Entrada
Vista View
Hobble Creek

Interesting and good 2nd flight:
WingPointe
Old Mill
EagleWood
SkyMountain
RiverBend
Sleepy Ridge
Gladstan
Homestead
Moab
Mountain Dell Lake
Mountain Dell Canyon
Wasatch Mountain Course
Wasatch Lakes Course
Soldier Hollow Gold
Soldier Hollow Silver
StoneBridge
Bonneville
Mt. Ogden

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen:

Good listing of UT golf -- I've personally played all the top tier layouts you mentioned. Frankly, Colorado is a good bit better in terms of the very top public ones and in sheer depth IMHO.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
I'll be interested to find out how the two compare as I hope to see quite a few of the Colorado courses as time permits. Dalton Ranch in Durango was my first venture yesterday, and a good one at that. Maybe Lakota Canyon and Redlands Mesa will convert Kalen in June  

I'll have a better idea how Michigan and Colorado compare I think after I see those two and a few others. I get the idea that it comes down to personal preference, but Michigan I think does have more good courses just because of sheer numbers.

[Andy Troeger]

Eagle Eye, Tullymore, Black Lake, Greywalls, and Timberstone is our ideal 5-day trip. Yes, I know Arcadia, Bay Harbor, and Forest Dunes, among others, are being bypassed, but that is a mostly economic decision.

There are simple so many courses up there we want that we will never run out of ideas. Yes, I doubt any other state has as many high quality publics as Michigan.

Doug,
Keep in mind that Tullymore, Black Lake, and Eagle Eye might not be that much more than halfway to Greywalls and Timberstone coming from Cincy...Michigan is a BIG state when considering the UP! If you planned it right you might be able to include Arcadia, at least in the past I know they had a pretty good twilight special that got the price down to $75. Not sure what it would be now. I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices though.

[Brian Cenci]

Eagle Eye, Tullymore, Black Lake, Greywalls, and Timberstone is our ideal 5-day trip. Yes, I know Arcadia, Bay Harbor, and Forest Dunes, among others, are being bypassed, but that is a mostly economic decision.

There are simple so many courses up there we want that we will never run out of ideas. Yes, I doubt any other state has as many high quality publics as Michigan.

Doug,
Keep in mind that Tullymore, Black Lake, and Eagle Eye might not be that much more than halfway to Greywalls and Timberstone coming from Cincy...Michigan is a BIG state when considering the UP! If you planned it right you might be able to include Arcadia, at least in the past I know they had a pretty good twilight special that got the price down to $75. Not sure what it would be now. I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices though.

Doug,
     If you're gonna play Black Lake at $75 for 18 then I would instantly drop that and pay $100 for 18 at Forest Dunes.  YOU WILL NOT BE IMPRESSED WITH BLACK LAKE, EVEN FOR $75! TRUST ME.

Andy,
     Arcadia used to have that deal several years ago and now they have it if you play really late in the year or after like the 1st of October.  But, it's still only $75 for 18.  The old deal at Arcadia used to be $75 during these time periods for all day golf.  Plus that twighlight special is like $75 after like 6:00 or 7:00...you usually can't get all 18 in.

-Brian

[Andy Troeger]

Brian,
Thanks for the update. It used to be $75 after 2 PM on Sundays, which was great seeing as it was light until about 10 PM at times in the summer. Not surprised that hasn't been continued...

[Brian Cenci]

Brian:

Michigan has the sheer numbers of public courses -- but I can tell you that California and Colorado would do well in such a situation of best public layouts -- especially if limited to a top 10 or top 15. The Centennial State offers plenty of affordable options beyond the more expensive mountain located layouts.

Matt:
    The only true test IMO to Michigan golf may be California.  They obviously have a lot of top end courses.  Colorado I could see but my limited experience with the state (only having played Redlands Mesa and Lakota Canyon) tells me Michigan has it beat.  I consistently see Redlands Mesa and Lakota in the top 5 in the state for Colorado and I think Arcadia, Greywalls and Forest Dunes are better courses.  Both of those being an Engh (Redlands and Lakota), I do think they're better than Tullymore.

-Brian

[Kalen Braley]

I don't doubt that Colorado and California have a better offering of high end public access courses.  And yes Andy I'm sure I won't be dissappointed in June.

But I thought this link was about courses that are in the $25-40 range.  And thats the critieria I was also working with.  Pretty much every course on that list I submitted can all be played for less than $40, with the exception of 1 or 2.

I doubt Colorado or California could even come close to this if that critera were applied.  I know this is true for the caliber of public tracks in Nor. Cal where I grew up. What you get for that price range is far less that the quality of course you can find here in Utah.  

[Andy Troeger]

Kalen,
I would agree that you won't find that much for under $40 in Colorado from what I've seen, and I don't really think Michigan is any different. However, you can play a lot of courses in the $50-$70 range in both areas.

If you're looking for the real value Utah probably deserves consideration, and Doug's favorite state Kentucky does as well as many courses there are in the $25-40 range. Indiana has a fair amount as well. New Mexico has a few of the best courses you'll find in that price range, but be prepared to do a fair amount of driving to find them.

I'm not certain at what Brian was getting at to begin with, but I think the quality and depth in Michigan and Colorado is probably worth the extra $$. I wouldn't mind getting to Utah though to see if the courses on your list can prove me wrong.

[Brian Cenci]

Kalen,
I would agree that you won't find that much for under $40 in Colorado from what I've seen, and I don't really think Michigan is any different. However, you can play a lot of courses in the $50-$70 range in both areas.

If you're looking for the real value Utah probably deserves consideration, and Doug's favorite state Kentucky does as well as many courses there are in the $25-40 range. Indiana has a fair amount as well. New Mexico has a few of the best courses you'll find in that price range, but be prepared to do a fair amount of driving to find them.

I'm not certain at what Brian was getting at to begin with, but I think the quality and depth in Michigan and Colorado is probably worth the extra $$. I wouldn't mind getting to Utah though to see if the courses on your list can prove me wrong.

Andy,
      What I was getting at was which state has the best depth for quality public golf courses.  Michigan is one of the least expensive places to play golf.  I can only think of two public courses in the state that are over $100 to play...don't think you can say that about too many other states.

-Brian    

[Matt_Ward]

Brian:

I concede the "depth argument" of MI public courses. That was not my point. If you take the top 10-15 to maybe as many top 20 public courses in California and Colorado they have the edge on MI.

You also have plenty of quality public courses in Colorado (save for the mtg located courses in summer time) that do charge a very reasonable rate to play.

[Doug Ralston]

Brian;

Much as I appreciate Andy's comments, and do indeed try to encourage players to explore Kentucky's courses; I would not compare it to Michigan for depth. Hard to believe even California could be that deep. Last I looked, 866 public courses, and many quality architects almost exclusive to Michigan [recently found that Ray Hearn is building one in Kentucky, just in beginning stages]. Hope to play some this year!

Doug

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