When will the Masterhaters admit they were blind..

[John Kavanaugh]

We had a great day today and tomorrow should even be better.  I'm sorry but you haters of the course and the tournament were sooooooo wrong...

[A_Clay_Man]

Do you mean wrong because today was the lowest first round scoring average, EVER, despite the addition of countless yards and boo-koo trees ?

So, Never?

 

[John Kavanaugh]

I just think it was a perfect day with great champions shooting low...old champions shooting low enough and the true champion shooting just right.  You can't name me a better Thursday in golf..

[Pat Howard]

John,

Remember the ANGC is the best course in the world thread you started a while back that drew so much attention on here? Boy, I hated that one! But I do think there was some truth in it, too. It's the only tournament I feel like watching all day long. The course is truely amazing.

I'm starting to feel that the 12th at Augusta is the best tournament hole in the world. It's a very tricky short hole in a perfect setting in arguably the greatest tournament around. I almost started a thread to get some feedback from others about it but decided otherwise.

I love the Masters

[Garland Bayley]

I'm a mastershater and I am developing cataracts, but I'm not blind yet!
 

[John Kirk]

As always, I thought it was great.  I watched the whole broadcast.    I think the course tests almost all of the players' skills.  Other than strong, consistent winds to force players to play drives and approaches under the wind and "run" shots into the greens, every facet of skill is examined.  And there's lots of creativity around the greens, where all kinds of shots are played.

I do not personally love the look of Augusta, but it's one hell of a golf tournament.

As far as low scoring today, Adam, I think some credit should be given to the modern players, not just their equipment.  The players these days are really skillful.  Augusta still made some of them look pretty bad today.  Nick Faldo three putted from about four feet on 11 today.

Speaking of 11 today, did you see that pin position?  Plus I thought the greens were really fast.      

[John Kirk]

I'm starting to feel that the 12th at Augusta is the best tournament hole in the world. It's a very tricky short hole in a perfect setting in arguably the greatest tournament around. I almost started a thread to get some feedback from others about it but decided otherwise.

Amazing how the pin seemed pretty accessible, and at 145 yards to the pin, and about 150 to the center of the green, the shot should be a standard nine iron for many players, only about a third of the guys hit the green.  Davis Love III spent a couple minutes deciding before hitting nine, then flew it into the azaleas and made 6.

Also, they don't have to use "trick" pin positions at 12, they just stick the pin left, center, or right, never too close to the edges.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Adam,
Where did you hear that? I thought Thursday's avg. was 74.94. That wouldn't put it lowest, 2002's was 72.46.

Jaka,
There isn't a more successful golf tournament on the planet. I know slews of people who don't golf/never watch golf who tune in for the Masters.

p.s. there are only 3 players left who have a chance of winning the tournament with all four rounds in the sixties, something that's never been done. Odds are it won't happen this year.

[Mark_F]

What's there to hate?

An artifically tarted up course full of old fogies and other assorted US PGA tour hacks who have no right to play in a Major, which, after all, are meant to identify the best players in the game, run by a club so full of themselves spectators are called patrons, with greens so ridiculously quick they would be laughable anywhere else.

Sounds like an ideal set up to me.

[redanman]

Barney

I nodded out twice in the afternoon with the dizzingly fast pace of play and threw up three times looking at the "new row of trees" on 11, 15 and 17.  Oh yeah, once more on the #11 tee flyover.

 

All in all it still beats the GGO.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Ferguson,

The greens aren't ridiculously quick.

What TV doesn't show is whether the putt is downhill or uphill, most of the putts that made the highlights were downhill, and the slopes are startling.

Mark, who should be competing who's not there ?

Did anyone notice the water ?
It looked like ....... water..... with no additives.

[Paul_Turner]

The Masters is "Plain Jane Vanilla" next to our Open.

[Jim Franklin]

I certainly miss Greg Norman playing there. While he probably would have no shot, I thought the course was perfect for him. He just never closed the deal. It would have been nice to give him a special exemption on the tenth anniversary of his greatest collapse.

[A_Clay_Man]

And isn't the Vanillaization what those who rally against the course chanes are trying to protect against?

The softening of contours, the addition of the weakest design elements known to man, and these guys still ALL go low.

Bobby Jones' piece posted the other day was fundamentally correct. In order to combat the longer and longer hitter, there nneds to be a shortening and am increase in contour nearer the hole.

Jim K,
I thought I heard one of the announcers say it. Regardless, this was the first time this course was ever played in "the masters" so I suppose it is still correct.

[Patrick_Mucci]

And isn't the Vanillaization what those who rally against the course chanes are trying to protect against?

The softening of contours, the addition of the weakest design elements known to man, and these guys still ALL go low.

Bobby Jones' piece posted the other day was fundamentally correct. In order to combat the longer and longer hitter, there nneds to be a shortening and am increase in contour nearer the hole.

Adam,

The flaw in that argument is that in order to test the greatest players in the world, you'd have to make the contouring nearer the hole so difficult that the average or good golfer couldn't cope with it.

Jones never contemplated golf as it's played now.

When he watched Nicklaus play 30-40 years ago, he commented that Nicklaus played a game that he was thoroughly unfamiliar with.   Imagine what he'd say now.

But, one thing is clear, if you make it difficult for the best players in the world to chip, pitch and putt, anyone of lesser ability will have a far more difficult time.

The beauty of lengthening a golf course is that noone has to walk back to those back tees in the normal play of the golf course.

Paul Turner,

Have you noticed any difference in the longitudinal and latitudinal co-ordinates of the venues for the "Open" and ANGC ?

[John Shimp]

There is nothing vanilla about ANCG the way it is playing so far this year.  The major difference between how it played yesterday and the typical Open is no rough.  Augusta was firm and fast.  Secondarily, ANGC's greens seemed a bit slower than last years US Open at Pinehurst.  I attended yesterday and the ball was rolling forever in many of the fairways.  It was a great test.  Hole 7 and 11 are absurdly tight with the additional trees, but the rest of the place seemed about right given the huge driving distances of today.
7 with the tiny green in particular just doesn't look or feel right at 450yds.

[PThomas]

I agree with the club's attempts to fight technology, but it's not the same course it used to be

do they need the "rough"  with all the trees they've added?

[JESII]

Mark B

Mickleson left himself an easier third shot from just off the back there than most any of the putts from the left half of the green. By the way, what was so special about his second shot? It landed just about pin high to a back pin.

[JESII]

Paul T,

That's actually a very interesting question. I've heard a number of times that due to the length of that "rough" some players prefer hitting from there on certain shots (e.g. #13) than the fairway.

[Robert_Walker]

What is a boo koo tree?
The new trees at Augusta look more like pine trees to me.

[Robert Thompson]

One stat yesterday said only 16% of the players found the 11th fairway. Ridiculously bad architecture for a hole that already played to a 4.3 shot average last year. So it clearly needed more length.

And I don't care what anyone says -- those trees on the right clearly look like transplants and look badly out of place.

[ed_getka]

John,
   I doubt there are many Masters haters here. It is a compelling tournament to watch. There are obviously many here who abhor the changes for fear at some point they ruin the course. It will be interesting to see how #4 and #7 play for the week. I only saw a bit of the tournament last night on replay. Had to golf while the sun was shining out here in soggy NorCal.
   

[Jim Thompson]

Paul,

With the rough at 1 3/8" and given it density the ball sits pretty nice when you get to it.  I think it tends to forgive bad shots more than punish them by keeping more poor shots from getting into the ole pine nursery.

Cheers!

JT

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat-

The flaw in that argument is that in order to test the greatest players in the world, you'd have to make the contouring nearer the hole so difficult that the average or good golfer couldn't cope with it.

Jones never contemplated golf as it's played now.

It would appear that the average good golfer would have a worse time at ANGC, today, due to the alterations that have been made. Shocking that you use that counter-argument since so few average golfer's play there. Also, wouldn't growing the grass on the greens, to a proper stimp, aleviate that?

If you look closely at the words Jones used in that '59 article, (david Lott's thread with article   http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=22886
)  he does contemplate the future, calling them "longer and longer hitters"(or words to that affect).
Are you Pat Mucci, saying that Robert Tyre Jones was fundamentally WRONG when he said words to this affect " in order to test the long hitters more contours nedd to be designed closer to the hole"?