The culture of golf today,

[Patrick_Mucci]

does it stifle architectural creativity ?

Fairness
Maintainance
ADL
Liability
Carts
TV
Permiting
EPA's
Housing

How do these contribute to muted designs ?

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Pat,

To some extent these issues present problems, but creative design could come from dealing with issues over and over as a means to solve problems rather than dreaming up great things in your head and trying to implement them on the ground.  If you feel the architectural output is not up to another period it might be because  the minds of the present are not up to the tasks that are being presented to them.  Creativity is as much about how you go about dealing with issues of the day.

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

How about "making excuses" ?

Sure there are more environmental considerations than there used to be, and there SHOULD be more now that we understand what is going on out there.  But I agree with Kelly, that just gives us more things to figure out, it doesn't necessarily stifle creativity.  I don't feel held back much at all.

[Mike_Young]

Agree with KBM and TD but I would say you left off the BIGGEST stifler IMO.....HOUSING....
I think housing has done more to disrupt golf architecture than any one thing....
It stifles flow and wholeness of the course....making it a series of holes instead of a whole.

JMO

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Young,

I think housing issues are inherent in a golf course featured as part of a residential community, and I will include it.

[Jim Thompson]

For what its worth, I think the trend over the next few years will be the decline of the CCFAD residential plan in favor of housing at great course projects rather than on good courses.  The prestige of living in a golf community comprised of a great course(s) will trump the glory of living ON the course while creating greater revenue for developers and better courses for players.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Thompson,

It's tough to beat a water view when you're selling a house.

But, I've always been surprised that more residential communities didn't possess better golf courses.  With the homes at an isolated site rather than interspersed with the golf course.

I guess the market demands didn't necessitate it, so the developers kept going with what was selling.

Perhaps the glut will cause a flight to quality golf courses and homes.

Time will tell.

[Bill_McBride]

Can a great course ever be built in a truly planned residential development?

Pebble Beach and Pasatiempo can be considered great courses with a residential component, but not within a development.

When the houses are planned when the course is planned, there always seem to be serious negatives........

Either housing lots on both sides of fairway, or houses left / lake right (the Florida model).   Some older developments overcome this by setting the lot lines / OB way off the centerlines, the original Sunriver course comes to mind.

Big treks from green to next tee, rendering walkability a difficult issue.  This is probably more of a drawback than tight OB lines, although land is not getting cheaper.

What are some examples of "great courses" that exist within a planned residential development?

[PThomas]

Muirfield Village?

[Mike_Young]

I think the new catch word is "core " courses.  Courses within a housing community has already begun and I agree it will continue where the houses are within the development but not on the course.

[Bill_McBride]

Mike - so there is no negative impact on routing and walkability?

[Mike_Young]

hopefully not...especially if they let you route the golf course b4 landplanning for lots

[Bill_McBride]

If I understand this right, the golf course is one area of the overall development, with no course-front lots, and the housing is another separate area?  Have you built any courses like this?  Can you give us a link to a routing plan like that?  I just have a hard time imagining a developer doing that!  

[Mike_Young]

I have done a couple like that where the housing is on the perimeter of the course....

[Ryan Farrow]

This is all part of design. Every design profession faces similar yet differesnt issues as these.I guess the best way to put is from the words of Robert Eames.

"I don't remember being forced to accept compromises, but I've willingly accepted constraints."

[Mark_F]

Patrick,

Perhaps you missed the most important stifler of creativity?

Golfers' expectations?

[Richard Phinney]

As ever, St. Andrews holds the answers:
Good housing - the buildings lining the 18th.
Bad housing - the hotel on the 17th.
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Ferguson,

That was the original question/answer.

There's a culture and/or a golfing element that prefers certain aspects of design, like waterfalls and rivulets, and another, more traditional culture, that abhors those things.

But, since a golf course is a product, does the culture dictate the design ?

Are the traditionalists in the great minority ?