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mark chalfant

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Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« on: March 20, 2006, 11:17:59 PM »
Other than Sunningdale and Notts what are some of the most
interesting creations of W.  Park  in Britain /ireland    thanks.

Chris Parker

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 11:26:17 PM »
Mark,

From what I've heard, Huntercombe is great, and has a strong connection with Park.
"Undulation is the soul of golf." - H.N. Wethered

Kyle Harris

Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 11:28:34 PM »
Huntercombe is the course that Park invested £15,000 of his own money to design and build. He ultimately made nothing on the investment due to poor management, but as you can see, the course lives on.

David_Tepper

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2006, 12:58:42 AM »
I believe our esteemed fellow GCA-er Philip Gawith is a member at Huntercombe. Hopefully, he will see this and fill us in.

Paul_Turner

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2006, 11:19:46 AM »
Mark

I haven't played many Willie Park courses in Britain.  I'm not sure that North Middlesex would qualify as a hidden gem, but it does have one weird architectural addition.  What were they thinking??



Other than this, this little course does look to have some interesting greens at least.



« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 11:24:05 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

T_MacWood

Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 06:29:21 AM »
It doesn't appear Park has too many hidden gems....I'm not sure if the problem is 'hidden' or 'gem'.

Is anyone familar with Knebworth? A couple of other courses that were prominant designs in his day: Stoneham, Aldeburgh and Burhill. Are any of these courses gems?

Why don't we see more hedges in golf architecture?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 06:35:42 AM by Tom MacWood »

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 06:56:26 AM »
Stoneham is a gem.  How much of it is surviving Park work I cannot say, but it is a cracker of a course.  It's in the northern suburbs of Southampton and makes excellent use of a rolling site.  There are some wicked green sites.  I wish I had some photos to share with you, but the only time I played it it was miserable weather.  Yet it remains firmly etched in the mind.

Aldeburgh is a magnificent course, with brilliantly drained land, the course playing fast and firm all year round.  It is perhaps at its best in winter - in summer it can get too dry.  There are many gorse-lined fairways, a high proportion of long two-shot holes (no par 5s), some wicked bunkering, and the club guide says that the present course is little altered from that 'suggested by' Taylor and Park.  I don't recall that there are any Taylor mounds as at Royal Mid-Surrey.  I posted some pictures of Aldeburgh in the British Courses series if someone can scroll back far enough or get the search engine to oblige.

You see Knebworth from the train on the King's Cross line.  From there it appears to be a rectangular site with a lot of parallel holes and valleys/gullies crossing at 90-degrees to the line of the shot.  I played it once in about 1971 or 2 and I remember nothing about it.  That doesn't mean it was good, bad or indifferent, merely that it made no impresion on me at the time.


T_MacWood

Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 07:56:52 AM »
What about Montrose? How good and/or well-known is it?

Paul_Turner

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2006, 09:41:09 AM »
I don't think there is much left of Park's work at Montrose.  Richard Phinney is the man in the know.
Big redesign after WW1.

Is Formby, Park Jnr or Snr?  Not hidden and many changes but certainly a gem.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

T_MacWood

Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2006, 08:42:35 AM »
Formby is Park-Jr 1905-1907.

Did Colt do some work there too?

Philip Gawith

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2006, 05:43:53 PM »
Mark - I couldn't manage to copy the link to the Huntercombe thread from last December, but it is back on page one as I have just posted a reply to it. There are pictures there from me and Sean. I think it definitely fits the bill as hidden gem - a course with a lot of history, distinctive features, excellent greens - but miles off the radar of most people, which is roughly how its members prefer it. Drop me a line if you would like to play it - you would be a welcome guest.

Tom MacWood - Knebworth is mostly famous these days for hosting summer rock concerts. The sort of place where you - and 80,000 others -  can go and watch Oasis play, if that is your bundle. ;)

Paul_Turner

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2006, 09:46:26 PM »
Tom

The only detail I can track is that Colt built the 5th and 12th holes.  Not sure of anything else.  Two of the best holes on the course and right up therer with the best links holes in the Isles.

Mark

One other:  Silloth on Solway is Park Jnr and definitely a hidden gem.  You would love it!
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Bill_McBride

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2006, 10:00:05 PM »
Philip, where is Huntercombe located?  Still putting together our post-Buda itinerary, although the current leaders (Delamere Forest and Buxton/Cavendish) are looking very good and close to our departure gateway of Manchester.

Is Formby in the neighborhood as well?

Mark's notes about the changes at Hoylake being prepared for our event might be as funny as anything I've ever read on GCA!  ;D

Ed Tilley

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2006, 05:52:09 AM »
I am playing both Formby and Silloth on Solway in June. I will be taking the camera and post a few pictures from each.

mark chalfant

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2006, 09:59:55 AM »
Sean, Paul, Mark R, Phillip Gawith  et al ,thanks so much for your nice replies  about  Willie Park.


Mark

Andy Levett

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Re:Willie Park hidden gems in British Isles
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2006, 05:44:00 PM »
Newbiggin on the Northumberland coast a little north of Newcastle is certainly hidden - a Willie Park Jnr links for ten quid anyone? - but perhaps not quite a gem.
I thoroughly enjoyed my round there (and loved the price in early January when everything else was shut or a bog) but there was only one hole to stand up equal with the weakest at, say, Silloth.

This is it, the 345 yard 6th. Not obvious where to drive, this was too far right:



A more conventional approach:




It's a real sunken green, this is the view from the right:



From back left:





Surprisingly few links put the sea in play - here's the tee-shot on the fifth:






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