[Craig Disher]

Wayne,
I haven't been over there since last year and with all the mild weather we've had this year, he's probably made a lot of progress.

Bob thought several of the greens might have been Flynn's. It was difficult to tell since the surrounds on many greens had been altered with small mounds and other little modifications. His intent was not to touch the putting surfaces except to expand them where he felt they had shrunk. I watched him mark some for expansion and the changes will be significant. He's also taking out trees and widening landing areas. #2 will be a revelation.

The best course in the area is going to get better.

There are many reasons why the DC/Balt metro area is relatively weak in quality gcs and one of them has to be the clubs' (and private owners') tendency to rely on the same old same old. Ault/Clark had a stranglehold on this area for decades and until about 5 years or so ago almost all the courses here reflected their standard style - which became ingrained among the golfers as what courses should look like. Their early work was spent constructing public courses around MD and beteen the 70s and the 90s they parlayed that experience into updating most of the private clubs in the area. So many of the bunkers at my club are identical to ones I've seen at most of the other courses they worked on - Columbia included.

[gookin]

Which ones are RTJ holes?

[Mike Policano]

Mungeam did an excellent job at Briarwood.  Especially when you consider that SL Solow was involved.  

[ChasLawler]

Which ones are RTJ holes?

Wayne and Tom certainly know more than me, but I believe RTJ significantly altered 14 - it's very out of character with the rest of the course; and he shifted the tee significantly to the right on the par 3 15th creating what I feel is a very awkward approach.

[TEPaul]

David B:

If you're asking about Cascades it seems RTJ moved #1 green (even if owner Fay Ingalls wrote Flynn did) or at least it appears he rebunkered it, and he moved #14, #16 and #17 greens. The moving of the 14th green required the moving of the 15th tee to an angle quite different from the original.

The bunker project was on #16 when I was there the other day and they've done the bunkers on that RTJ green on #14. I guess that means they may leave that green.

Our restoration plan recommended restoring Flynn's original #14 green and the original 15th tee. Flynn's original 14th green appears to be right there about 30 yards in front and slightly to the right of the present green. Obviously it was never graded out---thankfully.

[Buck Wolter]

Not sure if it's a restoration or renovation -- the former I believe but there has been quite a bit going on at St. louis CC. I'm anxious to see how 'Punchbowl' turned out.

Also here in St. Louis a renovation of Bellerive is about to take place courtesy of the Metro Sewer District. It'll be closed all 2006 from what I've heard. No idea who will be doing the work or what the extent of the changes will be.

[T_MacWood]

NY Metgolfer article

http://www.mgagolf.org/intraclub/query/catquery.html?doc_number=5099

I posted this yesterday, but it got a little lost.

Mike
Thanks for sharing that excellent article.

I'm not crazy about the look of the bunker at the 16th of Engineers...IMO it does not look like the original Strong, it has a very modern appearance.

Wayne/Craig
Is Bob Walton the superintendant at Columbia? It sounds like he is in the process of restoring that gem. Do you have his e-mail address?

[wsmorrison]

Tom MacWood,

Bob is an architect and a partner in the firm of Malek and Walton.  He is also an excellent fellow and golfer.  His email address is golfdesign@hargray.com

Do you have any information related to the work at Columbia CC?

[T_MacWood]

Wayne
I do have some old articles and photos...I was going to send him what I have.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

He would certainly appreciate it.  He is very much historically inclined and would welcome as much information as you may provide.  I hope to see it as well at some point.  Do you have photos from the 1921 Open?  I had no interest as of that date for the Flynn book, but now I find Flynn was on the payroll during the Open.  

Best,
Wayne

[A.G._Crockett]

I haven't seen it, but I am hoping to soon:

Chattanooga Golf and CC, a Ross renovation by Bill Bergin of Atlanta.  He is very, very proud of it, and I love his original designs, so I am looking forward to getting up there this summer.

Does anyone have more information on the Chattanooga Golf and CC restoration/rennovatoin? I lived in Chattanooga for seven years and played there numerous times, but I haven't been there in almost ten years.

Last I remember they had undertaken some tree removal (particularly on the opening hole) to open up the great views of the river. I always liked the course, but felt that it was a little cramped (especially the back nine).

David,
Sorry I missed this yesterday, but here are a couple of links on the work at Chattanooga GC.

http://www.golfcoursenews.com/news/news.asp?ID=1026

http://www.golfcoursenews.com/news/news.asp?ID=2024

[Rob_Waldron]

Wayne & Craig

I know this comment may appear sacriligious but I have heard nothing but positive feedback about the Arthur Hills' work at Manor CC. I have not played the course since it re-opened, have either of you???

[wsmorrison]

Rob,

It may turn to out to be a fine golf course, but the costs were astronomical compared to the original intent, the course was closed a lot longer than anticipated resulting in considerable hidden costs as well.

The concept was, as I believe, sold as a sympathetic restoration to the Flynn and Collis designs.  From seeing the plans, I think what resulted is a new Arthur Hills course with any connection to its classical era as long gone.  

What was the alternative?  A sympathetic restoration at a fraction of the cost and disruption to the club.  It remains to be seen if the model selected and enacted works for the club.

[Craig Disher]

Rob,
I haven't played the course but watched the construction fairly closely over the last year and a half. I hope to get over there this spring to see how it plays.

As far as the design goes, I'm sure Hills provided what the members asked for - a modern design that was similar to what had been done at other clubs in the area. I was disappointed that the club gave up so early on using any of Flynn's ideas (a complete set of Flynn's plans were available to the club and to Hills) for the property. They were exceptional and I think would have given Manor something the members would have loved.

I've heard favorable and unfavorable comments - the most common unfavorable one being that the course is just too hard for mid-handicappers.  But honestly, the membership has what they wanted and I hope it works out for them.

[Jerry Kluger]

Craig: I'm sure Manor will look just like all of Hills' other work in the area including Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Woodmont, etc.

[Craig Disher]

Jerry,
There are pieces from all of Hills' other designs at Manor. One thing that bothered me when I looked at the construction was that the courses you mentioned - and the daily fee courses like Blue Mash - are on large pieces of property with large vistas. Mounds and other artificial constructions can get swallowed up on big land and might even look like natural features. At Manor, which is on a small and very awkward piece of property, the mounds and other characteristic Hills features just don't work. The property, especially the front 9 with its streams, woods, and elevation changes needed a light hand - which Flynn gave it.

[Andy Hughes]

#2 will be a revelation.

Craig, in what way?
Do you know what other specific changes are planned?

Jerry, any news on Indian Springs?

[Craig Disher]

Andy,
Bob planned some tree and mound removal and fairway expansion along the left side. And I believe one large tree on the green side of the creek will be taken out. The new feeling of openness will set the tone for the rest of the course.

All of the putting surfaces will be expanded and I think he will do something with all the greenside bunkering - either rebuild, remove or add in accordance with the new green shapes.

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