[Keith Durrant]

Stuart,

In "Some Essays", Colt holds up Majuba as an example of a good blind hole:

"...a very good hole of its type. In this case a large sand-hill rises immediately to the left of the green and is visible from the tee, and this gives the player information as to length and direction."

This doesnt suggest that he would have willingly given up this hole - was it at the far end of the links? Was its disappearance definitely by Colt's hand?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

As I said, earlier, this is GCA at its best.  It's possible that we learn something from it.

[Keith Durrant]

Sean,

Stuart referred to "Majuba" in amongst the course plans earlier in the thread, as being lost in the "1923" set of changes, so i presume it's a different lost par 3, not part of the 1976-78 changes around 12-14.

[Stuart Hallett]

Sean & Keith,

This was Majuba, the 6th in 1891, then 14th up until 1910 with change of direction in 1901. Finally it was the 17th before being abolished in 1935.



Majuba green in background, played from the left



An excerpt from Colt's report states :
17th hole : New tee above the 16th green, on "Majuba", and build a new green 30 yards further on and well protected by bunkers. Leave a narrow entrance to run up to the hole.

After Fowler's changes in 1910, Darwin proclaimed "Majuba" as the best blind hole on the course and the 18th as one of the best last holes to be seen anywhere.

It does seem surprising that Colt changed "Majuba", but he did state his intention to remove blind shots in the report. Maybe even Colt who hated standardization conformed to the clients interpretation of what was considered normal, or fair, who knows ?

[Stuart Hallett]

Sean,

Perfect sense !

All this historical research makes me want to go back and play.

[Sean_A]

Ah, the penny has just dropped.  The first photo is from directly behind Majuba hill in the same direction the 17th is now played.  The current 16th is forward and left on the first photo.  The green for Majuba was in the sink just shy of the present 17th green.  

Man, at 190 yards with the height needed to carry Majuba, often into a wind, this would have been SOB hole.  I am not at all surprised Colt eliminated this hole.  

Thanks Stuart, this has been a real edumacation!

Ciao

Sean

[Keith Durrant]

Sean, I'm with your second description.

I vote for a Majuba resurrection.  

I mean this is now the era of the ProV1 and the Big Bertha, surely these would be a match for Majuba

[Stuart Hallett]

Sean,

If you're asking if the 16th green is left or right of the guys teeing off. Then I really can't be that precise, sorry !

Keith,

I second your vote, but keep the 16th green and push the 17th tee to the right. Which architect would suggest this now and would any committee accept the proposal, sign of the times i'm afraid.

[Keith Durrant]

Another British defeat, Sean !

In the same vein as the Spion Kop, it appears.

[Stuart Hallett]

Majuba is taken from the battle of Majuba Hill,1881 in the Transvaal when the Boers inflicted defeat on British troops.

The hole measured 160yrds and Majuba stood twenty feet higher than today.

[SPDB]

sean -
What i find easiest, is to just copy all of the text (and pics) into a Word doc. and print that way. It is a bit of pain having to separately copy the different pages, but it is the most effective way,IMO.  

[T_MacWood]

Alison deserves much more credit than he appears to be given here. Although Alison was following the basic framework of Colt's early report, he should be given design and construction credit for the bulk of the work from the early 20's until his death (in 1953).

When Darwin occasionaly wrote of Burnham (he was very fond of the course) he seemed to be always noting another one of Alison's improvements. Darwin was not happy when the Majuba was replaced (by Alison his old friend). It is interesting that although Alison replaced it with a new par-3 he preserved the old hole (old green). I suppose for those old timers who were attached to it - which pleased Darwin a devout conservative when it came to quirky old holes. I'm not sure why they got rid of it 1935 - perhaps financial considerations.

I wonder if it would be possible to revive the old hole, B&B could have a 19-hole course like Engineers with their '2 or 22 hole'.

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

What I can't work out is why, in their ads, Colt and Alison only give B&B a "C" category i.e minor work and upkeep advice?

[T_MacWood]

Paul
My only explanation for the 'C' would be the piece meal nature of their work. I also wonder if Alison may have provided his services for free.

[Sean_A]

Tommy Mac

I think Colt gets the lion's share of credit because it is his plan which expended the course to it's current boundary out at #s 9 &10 and seven new holes were designed off the 1913 plan.  There may be some confusion because the changes from the 1913 plan took 23 years to be completed.  The current 4th being the last hole finished.  I think WWI and raising funds are the main reasons for such a delay.  

Your idea about continuing Majuba was in fact done.  There was resistance from membership to eliminate Mujaba for Colt's 1913 (and current 17th) hole so both holes existed until 1935.  I am not sure if the new 17th was in play as well as Mujaba.  It is possible, but they would have used the same new 17th green which Colt designed.  This new green is about 30 yards directly behind the old green on a little plateau.  It is quite easy to see whre Mujaba's green would have been.  There is a small bowl like depression at the base of the new green.  This would have been a natural place for a green.  I expect the reason for eventually switching to the Colt is that the #3 tee was on top of Mujaba.  I would think hitting over a tee was troublesome.

Colt & Alison made futher reports in 1925ish (which probably included input from Fowler and Dr. Mac) and 1950ish.  The '25 report resulted in relatively minor changes some of around the church didn't survive.  I think Alison was the only architect of record working on B&B from in the from the early thirties til after WWII, but not much was happening because of the depression and the war.  

It is difficult to know who did what because of the partnership.  Surely Alison deserves a lot of credit, but my impression is that most of the credit is as work supervsior (probably including some bunker placement and altering of dunes) and as associate designer.

Paul T.

I can understand Colt's reluctance to attribute the design of B&B to himself because so many well known architects produced reports, two of which in partnership with Colt.  

Ciao

Sean    

[Paul_Turner]

To my eye, that 17th green complex at Burnham and Berrow shouts "Colt and Alison"  and shaped by Franks Harris Bros.  But I could be wrong.

[Sean_A]

Paul

The 17th is 100% Colt with Alison.  

The hole I can't really figure out is 14.  Colt was spose do have done it, but I suspect this is a Alison solo job and perhaps heavily modified later by Hawtree or Pennick.  

I find this partnership interesting.  Can somebody explain the exact nature of the Colt/Alison deal?

Ciao

Sean

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

Sometimes it's difficult, but in the US and Canada it's easy. Anything after WW1  is Alison;  before WW1 it's Colt.  Alison had an office in the US during the 1920s.

In the UK and Ireland, it's mainly Colt particularly on the high profile projects like redesigning Open venues.  I think Colt didn't travel much overseas after 1930.  Portrush being the obvious exception.  He did travel extensively in Europe through the 1920s.

And then you have to factor in Morrison who worked with Colt particularly in Europe.  I think the later work in Europe like Falkenstien are mainly his or his entirely.

Tom

Did you get my email with the large attachment?

[ed_getka]

Thanks for bringing this back up guys. I'll have to get back to B&B in the future, as I obviously missed some things my first go round. What a wealth of info you guys have contributed. Kudos.

[T_MacWood]

Paul

The 17th is 100% Colt with Alison.  

Ciao

Sean

Sean
It appears you are relying exclusively upon Phillip Richards' club history.

Bernard Darwin in 1925:

 "I was glad to see again the famous hole called Majuba, and I am very sorry to hear that may have been seeing it for the last time. It is a noble sugar-loaf hill of sand, and even if the hole is blind and fluky, I am sad to see it go. If I was a regular Burnhamite I should be more than sad: I should be angry. But then, I confess to being a conservative, and when a hole or a bunker has been loved or even hated by a sufficient number of golfing generations, I think it has earned its immortality and should remain for ever. However, dis aliter visum, and the Green Committee, with my old friend Mr. Hugh Alison to help them, have devised a new hole--a very fine one-shot hole from a tee on the side of Majuba across the valley to a green on the farther bank. I have no doubt they are right. All the same, I am glad they are leaving the old green, and when next I go to Burnham--may it be soon!--I intend, at least once to play the old hole."

Re-read my first post; I said Alison preserved the old green and old hole.

Paul
I did get it. Thanks. Large is an understatement.

[T_MacWood]

It is not my impression Colt, MacKenzie, Alison and Morrison did a lot of collaboration. It most cases the architect on site was also the designer. I have not seen many cases of Colt designing and then Alison or MacKenzie or Morrison carrying out the work - a few cases but not many.  Colt had a lot of confidence in MacKenzie, Alison and later Morrison.

Plus they had such a good relationship with (and confidence in) the contructors like the Harrises they didn't need whole lot of supervision--they appear to be in complete accord. Having Colt, Alison and Harris redesign a par-3 at Burnham would probably be considered a waste and duplication of efforts in Colt's frugal opinion.  

What do you think Paul?

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

I think there was definitely some collaboration between Colt and Morrison in Europe in the 1920s.  

[T_MacWood]

Sean
What information are you working from?

It would appear Darwin believed in 1925 that the 17th was Alison's; no mention of Colt.

The club history credits Gibson, Taylor, Fowler, Colt, Alison et al.

Paul
Morrison and Colt worked together at Portrush too (in fact Morrison may not be given enough credit there) but my impression is Alison and MacKenzie were pretty much on their own, and Morrison was on his own later on as well. And obvioulsy Colt did his own thing for the most part.

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