[Forrest Richardson]

Interesting to note that the pros here cannot seem to master the par-3s. Each is playing above par — all four. They are playing from 165 to 215.

[A_Clay_Man]

Forrest, Would you consider this statistic evidence showing the futility in building longer holes for the pros?
If the short ones can adequately protect par, why build longer?

[peter_p]

Too lazy to check, but isn't this pretty common?

[Jim Nugent]

Forrest, Would you consider this statistic evidence showing the futility in building longer holes for the pros?
If the short ones can adequately protect par, why build longer?

Or the other possibility is it shows the necessity of building longer holes.  Right now, on the par 4's pro's usually have wedge/short iron into the green.  On the par 5's, they usually have mid to long iron.  165-to-215 yard par 3's at least take wedge out of their hands.  That would translate, after a 300 yard drive, to 465 to 515 yard par fours.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Jim, That would be true, IF, when the boys play the 7800 yard monsters their scores are closer to par. From my perspctive, they seem to shoot lower, relative to par, on the monsters then they do at some of the older, shorter courses. i.e. peblle, Riv, Weschester, and of course Shinnethingy.

My feeling is that Forrest's observation speaks to the significance and importanance of the one-shotter.
But, clearly the PGA Tour has other pre-requisites for the choice of venue and likely feel self-imposed pressure to make golf more exciting to retain what little television revenue they have left.

[John Keenan]

I think Peter is correct most weeks the Par 3 play over par.

The issue is margin of error. On a Par 5 if you drive to bad location you still 2-3 shots to get healthy. On a par 3 if you drive poorly only 1 more to birdie. Therefore par or above is more likley.

Does the design of the TPC Par 3 add to this problem?

One Par 3 me thinks there does

[Forrest Richardson]

I think the key is that — among all holes — the par-3s are the ONLY holes playing above par on average.

It used to be that a few par-4s would play above par on average...but those days are gone. Yesterday I saw Frazer hit 345 on TPC's 5th hole. He had 1/2 a SW to the green. This is a hole which used to challenge players, and very likely played above a 4.0 average throughout the Phoenix Open.

Yes, Adam. Length has been over-rated...but sadly, cannot be ignored with new equipment combinations.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Forrest

I think you've hit on something here. You should go to the PGA Tour and convince Finchem that there should be a new TPC Tournament Course  built somewhere  of all 3pars!!!! This would be something for the new FedEx Cup.

Steve

[Forrest Richardson]

TPC No. 17 is, in essence, a par-3 on steroids. At 340-yards about 1/3 of the players hit the green. About 1/3 of those 3-putt. Those who are near the green off the tee get up and down about 1/3 of the time.

It is — only farther west — Oakmont's No. 8, c.1950s.

[Jim Nugent]

I think Peter is correct most weeks the Par 3 play over par.

The issue is margin of error. On a Par 5 if you drive to bad location you still 2-3 shots to get healthy. On a par 3 if you drive poorly only 1 more to birdie. Therefore par or above is more likley.

Does the design of the TPC Par 3 add to this problem?

One Par 3 me thinks there does

I think par fives are, for good players, just longer par fours.  They can reach most of them in two.  If they hit two decent to good shots, they usually putt for eagle, and two putt for birdie.  

More and more par fours are now reached in one as well.  Those that require long irons into them have almost gone the way of the dinosaurs.  Top players, again, sometimes putt for eagle and often have flop wedges for second shots.  

You never putt for eagle on par 3's.  You rarely have flop wedges off the tee.  They require longer irons into them, on average, than par fours.  Compared to par 5s, of course, it's no contest.  

If Tiger had to hit 165 to 215 into all the par fours, his scoring average would go way up.  

[RJ_Daley]

...165-to-215 yard par 3's at least take wedge out of their hands.

Jim, did you see JJ Henry hit 9 too long on 16 at 178yards, and J.B. came up just a wee short and left with wedge.  I don't know what Bubba hit...

[Mark Brown]

Par threes are the only holes you can make them hit long, or even medium irons on, unless you have a hazard where the fairway ends.

[Jim Nugent]

...165-to-215 yard par 3's at least take wedge out of their hands.

Jim, did you see JJ Henry hit 9 too long on 16 at 178yards, and J.B. came up just a wee short and left with wedge.  I don't know what Bubba hit...

No, I didn't, though I'm sure you are right.  Still, aren't those more exceptions than rules?  Whereas wedges into even 460 yard par fours are so common, there is a movement on this site to ban the turbo-charged ball.  

[redanman]

How about a US Open on the Hickory Course at Hamilton Farms?

(Cart ferries optional to speed up play.)

Over or under par winner?

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