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Matt Kardash

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Re:Island Greens
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2005, 01:09:51 PM »
didn't Perry build the one at the wolf?
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Island Greens
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2005, 12:55:29 AM »
Isnt it the case , if a developer hires a "Dye" , then he expects an Island Green ? .
Sure seems like it in the Far East .


Matt
I was referring to the many "Perry Dye" courses in the Far East , that were built in the "Dye Style" , then when the dust settles , the Club can advertise it as " built by the legendary designer Pete Dye" .

Best Regards.
Brian

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 12:55:49 AM by Brian_Ewen »

SMay

Re:Island Greens
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2005, 07:45:08 AM »
I am not 100 percent certain but the first island green in the U.S. is at the Abington C.C (formerly the original Old York Road C.C) in Jenkintown PA.  It is a par 3, 160 yards and in its original state.  Abington C.C. is an old Tillinghast 18 holes converted to a 9 hole layout a way back.  The site is very interesting to check out because many green surrounds are unaltered although slightly neglected.  You can certainly see at one point it was classical in nature.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Island Greens
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2005, 10:21:23 AM »
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the 16th at the Golden Horseshoe in Williamsburg, VA.  To me it is one of the most interesting and unique par 3s I've played as there are two sets of tees from two different angles.  For that matter, the 4 par 3s at the Horseshoe are great.

The 16th plays from the top of a bluff overlooking the river where the large island green is set.  You can also see the entire 17th behind it which is a strong uphill par 4.

The 16th is not very deep but it is wide and the second set of tees is part way down the hill to the left.  This shot is a bit shorter but you are shooting down the width of the green.

The green appears natural as there is a grass collar around the green down to the water and no wooden retaining wall, etc.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Island Greens
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2005, 09:51:09 PM »
Kyle & SMay

I think the 6th at Abington is very similar to the one at Galen Hall and both should be referred to as "moat holes" rather than an island green. To me, an island green requires a carry over a more substantial body of water than these 2 holes have.

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci_Jr

Re:Island Greens
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2005, 10:14:38 PM »

Has anyone else had enough with the concept of Island greens?  It was novel for a while, but they seem to be everywhere!

It's a nice feaqture when used properly, but I think it only works on par 3s.

Tillinghast felt otherwise.

He designed a great one, a par 4, at the 9th hole at Shackamaxon.

I believe Flynn felt the same as AWT, designing a terrific par 5, the 17th at Cherry Hills.
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Island Greens
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2005, 11:44:27 PM »
If no one else will stick up for island greens, I will.

I watched the replay of Tiger Woods' U.S. Amateur win at the TPC at Sawgrass last night, and it's not that surprising that the match was won on #17 -- and nearly lost, as well, when Tiger's tee shot landed a foot or so from the back pilings and the spin brought it back to the fringe (he holed from there for a birdie, as the world recalls.)

Had the green not been an island, Tiger's tee shot would not be remembered today, and the birdie would be just another in his nearly uncountable number of clutch birdies. The water all around the green greatly heightened the drama -- and what's wrong with that?

I'm not tired of island greens. I wish I had the opportunity to play more of them -- there aren't many on the Minnesota/Wisconsin courses I play.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

T_MacWood

Re:Island Greens
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2005, 08:51:38 AM »
Was there an island green at Royal Ashdown Forest?

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Island Greens
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2005, 09:52:39 AM »
I'm referring more to the island greens that exist purely for the sake of it.  There is one, #15 at the Tradition Golf Club, a piece of crap (in my opinion) just north of Pawleys Island.  #15 is a 160 yard par 3 with a completely meaningless 'island green.'  The green is very large--about 40 yards deep and 25 wide--with a couple big bunkers, and the edges of the island 10 yards outside those.  It takes a full-out chunk or a shank to get the ball wet.  The pond looks man-made, obviously a ploy to allow the club to say they have 2(!!!!) island greens (the other one is acceptable, albeit contrived, at #7).  This I do not agree with.  I actually anxiously await the first time I play #17 at TPC Sawgrass Stadium.  As it is regarded as one of golf's most intimidating par 3s and the foremost island green, it is of interest (though I'll admit, some of my fascination is the resolution of whether or not it is an easier green to hit that #13 at Pawleys Plantation).

Here's why I don't think island greens are sensible on par 4s and 5s.  On a par 3, the player is guaranteed (ideally) a flat, fairway-like lie.  on a 4 or 5, it is probable that the lie on the approach will be less-than -ideal--be it a sidehill lie, or from rough.  Depending on the size and severity of the island, this may be overly demanding, especially for the higher handicappers, who undoubtedly outnumber the good players.  From my experience, island greens can be injurious to a sensible pace-of-play.

I'd be willing to concede that island greens are alright when done carefully, but I don't think they are good as a pre-fabricated "cool hole" formula.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

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