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Peter Pratt

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NJ's best public courses
« on: September 22, 2005, 04:13:04 PM »
Matt Ward and others,

I'm planning to be at the NJ shore next summer--hey, it's never too early to plan--and was wondering what folks thought were the best public courses. How do Sand Barrens, Twisted Dune, Scotland Run, Seaview, and Shore Gate stack up? Others--any hidden gems? If you could play only 2, what would they be, given that I'll be an hour or so north of Atlantic City.

Thanks!

JBergan

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2005, 04:29:46 PM »
Well, I'm not Matt Ward, but I'd say Twisted Dune and Atlantic City CC, which, I think, you can play Monday-Thursday.

Scotland Run is not at the shore, it's about 35-40 minutes away (between Philadelphia and the shore).

Mike_Sweeney

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2005, 04:36:56 PM »
Twisted Dune and Atlantic City CC, which, I think, you can play Monday-Thursday.

Scotland Run is not at the shore, it's about 35-40 minutes away (between Philadelphia and the shore).

If it is still there next Spring, I would only add Blue Heron Pines - Smyers. I still have not played Brigantine Links, but would like to someday. I doubt it is better than any of the above, but it looks like a fun place.

Matt_Ward

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2005, 06:12:05 PM »
Peter:

The great debate at the top of Jersey's public listings comes down to these two courses IMHO -- either Twisted Dune or Ballyowen.

The rest that follow are my own preferences (I too hope that BHP / East hangs around just a bit).

Keep in mind that Hawk Pointe, Royce Brook / West and NJ National -- all public courses at one time -- will all be private by '06.

The rest I would recommend include the following ...

*Pine Barrens -- Welldone layout by Eric Bergstol -- natural and unforced.

*Scotland Run -- IMHO, far better than Links of ND -- also by Kay. Gets little appreciation from many but is well done.

*The Knoll *could challenge TD and Bally if the upgrades / restoration by George Bahto gets the 1005 greenlight. We shall see ...

*The Architect's Club -- minus the slow start with the firstfew holes and the lame closer a really fine effort.

*Hominy Hill -- a solid rendering of RTJ work in Colts Neck.

Other preferences I like but may ave a bit of shortcoming in one or more ways ...

McCullough's Emerald Links
Royce Brook / East
Wild Turkey
Bowling Green -- well done Courish -- a rare Jersey layout for him,

Skip the following as overrated ...

*Sand Barrens (nice but the sand motif wears thin)
*Shoregate (overkill to the max -- could be much better if toned down
*If you play Seaview skip the Pines -- and play the Bay -- a much more interesting layout.

I can post a bit more info later on a few others of note.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2005, 06:16:05 PM »
If you're 1 hour north of AC, the closest courses would be Sea Oaks and Pine Barrens,both of which are pretty good choices. Twisted Dune is generally regarded as the top public course at the South Jersey Shore and is my favorite. Watch out for the Tuesday to Thursday specials if you're of a certain age-55+. The twilight rate there is also more reasonable. ACCC is $150 when open to the public on Mondays to Thursdays. When in good condition, it's worth the expense. BHP East by Smyers is scheduled to close after this season but nothing definite has appeared in the news yet. If it's open next year, it's up there with Twisted Dune. Emerald Links, near Twisted Dune, is sometimes referred to as "Twisted Dune Light" as it has a similar "look" but is more reasonable costwise.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

JeffTodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 06:59:47 PM »
If you're 1 hour north of AC, the closest courses would be Sea Oaks and Pine Barrens,both of which are pretty good choices.
That's a good point. Peter, where on the Jersey Shore will you be staying? The answer to your question about where to play will vary quite a bit depending on your answer. In summer traffic, it's a long way from Belmar to Cape May.

JMHO, but if you're close enough to Sea Oaks to play it, then you're close enough to drive past Sea Oaks to play Twisted Dune. That's really not a knock on Sea Oaks, it's an enjoyable golf course, but it's fairly pedestrian for a $100 green fee. However, I recently played it with some high handicap friends and it was a good venue for that. It was very playable and well conditioned; I don't think they felt beat up or overmatched and everyone managed to shoot close to their handicap. That said, Twisted Dune is a superior golf course by far.

Pine Barrens is close to the northern beach areas and is quite solid. It's worth a drive, so if you are on LBI or points north, I would play it. Also, I will second the motion to avoid Shore Gate, it truly is overkill.

In the unsubstantiated rumor department, I have heard that BHP East has essentially abandoned all but basic maintenance on the course at this point. I say this having heard it from several people who "heard it" as well. I have no first hand accounts. Has anyone played there recently? If the rumors are untrue, I would like one last crack at the course.

astavrides

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Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2005, 07:12:16 PM »
Twisted Dune and Atlantic City CC, which, I think, you can play Monday-Thursday.

Scotland Run is not at the shore, it's about 35-40 minutes away (between Philadelphia and the shore).

If it is still there next Spring, I would only add Blue Heron Pines - Smyers. I still have not played Brigantine Links, but would like to someday. I doubt it is better than any of the above, but it looks like a fun place.

don't worry too much if you don't get to brigantine.  they market themselves well, but its mostly hype.  i dont think you ever see the shore during the round.  you do however see plenty of front and back yards.  the course is ok, pretty good, nothing special.  inexpensive, though.

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2005, 07:15:38 PM »
Matt,
I like Royce Brook east.  What shortcomings do you find in it?  Royce Brook West is already fully private.  (unless Ive confused east with west).
I second the vote for Hominy Hill as well worth playing.  Nice atmosphere.  Quintessential RTJ, even with the shortcomings that that implies.  

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 07:45:10 PM »
I think Pine Barrens is a great course, and I'll second the nominations of it.  Its 12th hole is one of the most creative and diabolical short par 3s anywhere.

Matt_Ward

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 08:18:06 PM »
stavros:

I like RB / East but it's the lack of details in the drive zones and in many of the putting surfaces that make it more of a "lite" choice compared to big brother West.

I am not suggesting that a plethora of bunkers -- to what you see with the West be added.

Gents:

Sea Oaks is another worthy addition.

Let me mention that the first George Fazio designed layout is also in the area in Tuckerton -- the former Atlantis GC which I believe is now called Ocean County at Atlantis. The original layout of this gem was something to behold -- I always have a special feeling for the superb downhill par-3 7th and the long but visually stimulating par-5 17th.

No doubt for Peter the drive will be key -- playing most of the courses in the Monmouth, Ocean and Atlantic County area would seem to fit the bill in terms of drive times. In the mixture Twisted Dune and Pine Barrens are the head of the class IMHO.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 08:31:05 PM »
Matt

Anything happening with the new Pete Dye course to be built on a former sand quarry near Manahawkin?

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2005, 08:32:12 PM »
Nobody mentioned Pine Hill - or is it private already?????

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2005, 11:15:30 PM »
Peter;

  If you're an hour north of Atlantic City, I'm figuring you'll be somewhere around Belmar, right?  

  Close at hand, I would have a look at Hominy Hill--RTJ Parkland course from the '50s or '60s.  Tough to get on--the county treats out-of-county guests slightly better than rodents and vermin, but it's a good course.  Exit 109 on the GS parkway.  

  I haven't played Pine Barrens, so I can't add anything to other opinions here.  

  Atlantic City would be my choice if I was heading south--that's off the AC Expressway, below Pleasantville.  Twisted Dune is not too far from there as an alternative, and gets high marks from many here.  Haven't played that one, either.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2005, 07:39:44 AM »
Matt,

Hawk Pointe is private as of September 1.

Steve,

I spoke with the guy who will be the construction superintendent on the Dye course you mentioned.  He is hoping things get started January '06.

Peter Pratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2005, 08:43:56 AM »
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and comments. I'm trying to find out from my bro-in-law exactly where we'll be staying...

Peter

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2005, 09:42:13 AM »
I'd be happy to help you out however I can if you decide to play Pine Hill.

-Ted

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2005, 09:55:39 AM »
Not to intentionally hi-jack this thread, but what is the treehouses opinion on Wild Turkey (the course not the beverage)?

Matt W - you like but it has short comings? I'll be there next month and wanted to know what to expect.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2005, 09:57:52 AM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2005, 12:50:15 PM »
Royce Brook West is already private.

I will throw another course into the mix:  Blue Heron Pines - East.  Very good Steve Smyers course.  According to the website, it is still open for play (course recently sold and will eventually be turned into housing).  Course was the site of the 2004 - US Public Links Championship.


Matt_Ward

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2005, 03:55:29 PM »
John:

The layout for Wild Turkey is hurt because it is forced to wander through a badly framed routing that must be all things for the development of housing but little in terms of a serious and successful golf plan.

The facility made a mistake in going with Roger Rulewich again because of the tremendous success he garnered with Ballyowen there was no upside in having him layout his second design there.

There are a few holes of note -- I like the par-3 7th over the pond although the width of the target is quite narrow for the shot you encounter. However, you have a number of "filler" holes that are nothing more than straight-as-an-arrow cuts with the likes of a few holes on the lower portion of the property such as the par-5 3rd and the stretch of golf holes from #12 through #15.

Wild Turkey is neither "wild" or a "turkey" but it simply lacks a consistent approach to the holes it has ... like I said at the outset -- the issue boils down to a site that simply doesn't help in having a compelling routing.

John -- keep in mind there are a few holes of note but the sheer detailing, consistency and visual imagery you get with Ballyowen is not present at Wild Turkey.

Steve:

Eagle's Lake Reserve, I believe, is the name of the proposed Pete Dye course. The layout is still in the final phases of getting all its permits processed. The final course is planned to be 7,500+ yards and be located in Stafford Township. A planned '07 opening seems likely.

Craig_Rokke

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Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2005, 07:21:27 PM »
I've only played a handful of Jersey courses, including Bedens Brook, Ridge at Back Brook, Seaview, Sunset Valley, and Blue Heron. Twisted Dune tops the list.

Peter Pratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2005, 02:04:49 PM »
Gentlemen,

I found out that we're staying just north of Atlantic City (Brigantine). How far is Twisted Dune from there? Pine Barrens?

Thanks again!

Matt_Ward

Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2005, 03:41:30 PM »
Peter:

Twisted Dune is roughly a 20 minite ride tops from the location you mentioned.

Pine Barrens is in Jackson and is roughly exit # 88 or thereabouts off the GS Pkwy. Time wise it's not more than 60 minutes tops away.

Hope this helps ...

matt

Tim McManus

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Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2005, 04:00:23 PM »
Peter - check this link for a pretty thorough road map of public access courses in NJ:

http://www.jerseygolf.com/NJ_Road_Map/NJ_Road_Golf_Map2.htm

Peter Pratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:NJ's best public courses
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2005, 08:48:26 AM »
Thanks for the help!!

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